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Interesting Ryan Dancey comment on "lite" RPGs
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<blockquote data-quote="Akrasia" data-source="post: 2390700" data-attributes="member: 23012"><p>Well I just read it again, and did not detect any 'edition bashing' at all. There *is* a claim that rules should be 'easy to learn' (take less than 15 minutes), and a statement to avoid 'a glut of rules' (which might 'restrict the flow of the game'). But there is no reference to the 'current edition' of the game, or even an attribution of 'rules glut' to any other game.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I *think* I understand your point, but don't get what the big deal is, since there is no mathematical difference between lowering the target number and giving a bonus to the ability. (Also, I've completely internalized the +6 way of understanding the prime system.) Most criticisms of THAC0 tend to focus on its awkwardness, and the SIEGE system doesn't strike me as awkward.</p><p></p><p>Fair enough. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p></p><p>As a 'rules light' version of D&D, the whole point of the game is to 'take away' (albeit in a way that keeps the game playable -- simply taking things out of the SRD will tend to produce a horrible, unplayable game).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, the fact that it C&C cuts down on my prep time and lets me use pre-3e material with little conversion work is pretty 'objective' IMO.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Yes, but removing core features like feats and AoOs from the SRD will have all kinds of "unintended consequences" for the game as a whole. It is *not* an easy thing to do. TLG has done this work for me, and for that I'm grateful. (So has Green Ronin with True 20, albeit in a very different way -- and I'm grateful to GR as well, as I very much like True 20 as well.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually the combat system is quite different, as are *many* of the spells. The power scale is also quite different. The SIEGE system (including its saving throw system) is very different. I could go on. Suffice to say, I think you are grossly overstating things here.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't realize that you were part of the rules design and playtest process, John. </p><p></p><p>It would be more correct to say that the designers started with pre-3e D&D, and modified it by drawing on the SRD, rather than simply "taking away" things from the SRD.</p><p></p><p></p><p>IME simply yanking things out of the SRD is *not* as easy as you might think. Without serious work, you will end up with an unplayable game. 3e is a complex game with many interdependent rules and variables. </p><p></p><p>I'm willing to pay money ($20) to TLG to save me that headache -- as well as achieve compatibility with pre-3e products. (Similarly, I am willing to pay $12 to GR for their True 20 system.)</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Again, I think you're seriously underestimating what a headache it is to remold the SRD into a 'rules light' system.</p><p></p><p>I also think you are grossly *understating* the differences between 3e and C&C.</p><p></p><p>And the ad hominem attacks on TLG seem unnecessary.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Akrasia, post: 2390700, member: 23012"] Well I just read it again, and did not detect any 'edition bashing' at all. There *is* a claim that rules should be 'easy to learn' (take less than 15 minutes), and a statement to avoid 'a glut of rules' (which might 'restrict the flow of the game'). But there is no reference to the 'current edition' of the game, or even an attribution of 'rules glut' to any other game. I *think* I understand your point, but don't get what the big deal is, since there is no mathematical difference between lowering the target number and giving a bonus to the ability. (Also, I've completely internalized the +6 way of understanding the prime system.) Most criticisms of THAC0 tend to focus on its awkwardness, and the SIEGE system doesn't strike me as awkward. Fair enough. :) As a 'rules light' version of D&D, the whole point of the game is to 'take away' (albeit in a way that keeps the game playable -- simply taking things out of the SRD will tend to produce a horrible, unplayable game). Well, the fact that it C&C cuts down on my prep time and lets me use pre-3e material with little conversion work is pretty 'objective' IMO. Yes, but removing core features like feats and AoOs from the SRD will have all kinds of "unintended consequences" for the game as a whole. It is *not* an easy thing to do. TLG has done this work for me, and for that I'm grateful. (So has Green Ronin with True 20, albeit in a very different way -- and I'm grateful to GR as well, as I very much like True 20 as well.) Actually the combat system is quite different, as are *many* of the spells. The power scale is also quite different. The SIEGE system (including its saving throw system) is very different. I could go on. Suffice to say, I think you are grossly overstating things here. I didn't realize that you were part of the rules design and playtest process, John. It would be more correct to say that the designers started with pre-3e D&D, and modified it by drawing on the SRD, rather than simply "taking away" things from the SRD. IME simply yanking things out of the SRD is *not* as easy as you might think. Without serious work, you will end up with an unplayable game. 3e is a complex game with many interdependent rules and variables. I'm willing to pay money ($20) to TLG to save me that headache -- as well as achieve compatibility with pre-3e products. (Similarly, I am willing to pay $12 to GR for their True 20 system.) Again, I think you're seriously underestimating what a headache it is to remold the SRD into a 'rules light' system. I also think you are grossly *understating* the differences between 3e and C&C. And the ad hominem attacks on TLG seem unnecessary. [/QUOTE]
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