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Introducing Complications Without Forcing Players to Play the "Mother May I?" Game
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7559785" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The same point I made upthread applies: this is not in general true of RPGing. Eg you won't find anything in Classic Traveller that states or implies that a GM has this power. Nor in Moldvay Basic. Just to pick two examples.</p><p></p><p>I don't think you have a very good handle on the advice to Classic Traveller referees in Books 1 to 3, nor on the advice to B/X and 4e GMs in the core books for those editions of D&D - just to pick up on two of the RPGs you identify as "mainstream". None of those systems suggests that the GM is the only participant with any control over the fiction, nor that every outcome is to be determined by the GM deciding what happens.</p><p></p><p>For you, perhaps. No one whom I play with assumes it. I've been GMing since around 1984, having started with Moldvay Basic and Classic Traveller, and have never assumed that the published mechanics are irrelevant and that the GM is at liberty to declare whatever outcomes s/he desires.</p><p></p><p>That goes to fictional positioning. The GM isn't just at liberty to declare that some player's PC is under a love spell. And it also applies vice versa: if my PC places a charm spell on a NPC, the GM is not at liberty to have that NPC attack my PC. The operation of these sorts of effects in the game is illustrative of the function of rules in establishing parameters for participants' control over the fiction.</p><p></p><p>(A contrast might be drawn with (say) Prince Valiant, which includes magic within its fiction but has no rules for magic. As a Prince Valiant GM it would be outrageous to just impose a love spell on a PC without that being the outcome of some unfolding fictional circumstance in which the player would have participated via the play of his/her PC.)</p><p></p><p>In most RPGs that I play that's actually not a valid action declaration, because it doesn't satisfy the constraints imposed by the PC's fictional positioning. The only exception would be Marvel Heroic RP, and even there only a few characters would be subject to the exception.</p><p></p><p>What is a GM going to do if a player insists "I draw my sword" even though the GM has specified that there are no swords in his/her gameworld? Or if a player insists that an NPC is his/her long-lost lover who is going to bestow upon the PC all his/her wealth as recompense for abandoning the PC in the past, and then proceeds to write down as much on his/her PC sheet? I don't know why you think that abusive or cheating behaviour is confined only to GMs!</p><p></p><p>For my part, I'm not discussing pathologocial or degenerate instances of play where one participant insists on establishing the content of the shared fiction in ways that violate the rules and rely on sheer social pressure. I'm talking about approaches to play that actually fall within the rules of the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7559785, member: 42582"] The same point I made upthread applies: this is not in general true of RPGing. Eg you won't find anything in Classic Traveller that states or implies that a GM has this power. Nor in Moldvay Basic. Just to pick two examples. I don't think you have a very good handle on the advice to Classic Traveller referees in Books 1 to 3, nor on the advice to B/X and 4e GMs in the core books for those editions of D&D - just to pick up on two of the RPGs you identify as "mainstream". None of those systems suggests that the GM is the only participant with any control over the fiction, nor that every outcome is to be determined by the GM deciding what happens. For you, perhaps. No one whom I play with assumes it. I've been GMing since around 1984, having started with Moldvay Basic and Classic Traveller, and have never assumed that the published mechanics are irrelevant and that the GM is at liberty to declare whatever outcomes s/he desires. That goes to fictional positioning. The GM isn't just at liberty to declare that some player's PC is under a love spell. And it also applies vice versa: if my PC places a charm spell on a NPC, the GM is not at liberty to have that NPC attack my PC. The operation of these sorts of effects in the game is illustrative of the function of rules in establishing parameters for participants' control over the fiction. (A contrast might be drawn with (say) Prince Valiant, which includes magic within its fiction but has no rules for magic. As a Prince Valiant GM it would be outrageous to just impose a love spell on a PC without that being the outcome of some unfolding fictional circumstance in which the player would have participated via the play of his/her PC.) In most RPGs that I play that's actually not a valid action declaration, because it doesn't satisfy the constraints imposed by the PC's fictional positioning. The only exception would be Marvel Heroic RP, and even there only a few characters would be subject to the exception. What is a GM going to do if a player insists "I draw my sword" even though the GM has specified that there are no swords in his/her gameworld? Or if a player insists that an NPC is his/her long-lost lover who is going to bestow upon the PC all his/her wealth as recompense for abandoning the PC in the past, and then proceeds to write down as much on his/her PC sheet? I don't know why you think that abusive or cheating behaviour is confined only to GMs! For my part, I'm not discussing pathologocial or degenerate instances of play where one participant insists on establishing the content of the shared fiction in ways that violate the rules and rely on sheer social pressure. I'm talking about approaches to play that actually fall within the rules of the game. [/QUOTE]
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