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Invsibility vs Cloak of Elvenkind
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<blockquote data-quote="tuxgeo" data-source="post: 7049691" data-attributes="member: 61026"><p>It does better than mere advantage or disadvantage, but that applicable information is spread out across multiple locations in the Player's Handbook (PHB), not in the "Invisibility" spell.</p><p></p><p>Location 1: In Chapter 7 ("Using Ability Scores"), there is a <em>sidebar</em> on "Hiding," and the second sentence within the third paragraph says: "An invisible creature can't be seen, so it can always try to hide."</p><p></p><p>Location 2: In Chapter 8 ("Adventuring"), under the minor heading "Vision and Light," the nature of an "obscured" area is given as: </p><p> "A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a <em>lightly obscured</em> area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight. </p><p> A <em>heavily obscured</em> area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix A)." </p><p> [PH Errata: A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.]</p><p></p><p>Location 3: In Appendix A ("Conditions"), the entry for the "Blinded" condition says in its first bullet point, "A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight."</p><p></p><p>Location 4: Also in Appendix A ("Conditions"), the entry for the "Invisible" condition says, "An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. . . ." That's in the first bullet-point. Then, in the second bullet point, it goes on to say, "Attack rolls against the creature have disadvantage, and the creature's attack rolls have advantage."</p><p>[hr][/hr]</p><p>Putting all of those together: </p><p>• When you're invisible, you can always try to hide (from sidebar on hiding in Chapter 7). </p><p>• When you're invisible, you're heavily obscured for the purposes of hiding (from the entry for "Invisible" in Appendix A). </p><p>• When you're invisible, any creature trying to see you is effectively blinded with regard to seeing you (from the PH errata about "Vision and Light" in Chapter 8 about observers being "effectively blinded" when trying to notice something heavily obscured). </p><p>• A creature that is effectively blinded "automatically fails any ability check that requires sight," per the "Blinded" condition in Appendix A. </p><p></p><p> Therefore, when you're invisible and making no noise -- and not knocking things over or pushing branches aside, which an observer <em>would</em> notice -- tnen all observers automatically fail their passive perception checks to detect you when you're trying to hide. That's a lot <em>more</em> effective at hiding than merely having advantage or a roll, or their having disadvantage on their check.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tuxgeo, post: 7049691, member: 61026"] It does better than mere advantage or disadvantage, but that applicable information is spread out across multiple locations in the Player's Handbook (PHB), not in the "Invisibility" spell. Location 1: In Chapter 7 ("Using Ability Scores"), there is a [I]sidebar[/I] on "Hiding," and the second sentence within the third paragraph says: "An invisible creature can't be seen, so it can always try to hide." Location 2: In Chapter 8 ("Adventuring"), under the minor heading "Vision and Light," the nature of an "obscured" area is given as: "A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a [I]lightly obscured[/I] area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight. A [I]heavily obscured[/I] area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix A)." [PH Errata: A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.] Location 3: In Appendix A ("Conditions"), the entry for the "Blinded" condition says in its first bullet point, "A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight." Location 4: Also in Appendix A ("Conditions"), the entry for the "Invisible" condition says, "An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. . . ." That's in the first bullet-point. Then, in the second bullet point, it goes on to say, "Attack rolls against the creature have disadvantage, and the creature's attack rolls have advantage." [hr][/hr] Putting all of those together: • When you're invisible, you can always try to hide (from sidebar on hiding in Chapter 7). • When you're invisible, you're heavily obscured for the purposes of hiding (from the entry for "Invisible" in Appendix A). • When you're invisible, any creature trying to see you is effectively blinded with regard to seeing you (from the PH errata about "Vision and Light" in Chapter 8 about observers being "effectively blinded" when trying to notice something heavily obscured). • A creature that is effectively blinded "automatically fails any ability check that requires sight," per the "Blinded" condition in Appendix A. Therefore, when you're invisible and making no noise -- and not knocking things over or pushing branches aside, which an observer [I]would[/I] notice -- tnen all observers automatically fail their passive perception checks to detect you when you're trying to hide. That's a lot [I]more[/I] effective at hiding than merely having advantage or a roll, or their having disadvantage on their check. [/QUOTE]
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