Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Invsibility vs Cloak of Elvenkind
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 7054481" data-attributes="member: 6683613"><p>The 5E rules for Stealth are notoriously fuzzy. I'm not going to pretend that there is a printed hard-and-fast distinction between "hiding" and "moving silently" that you overlooked, because there isn't. However, the distinction did exist in previous editions. And the <em>cloak of elvenkind</em> gives "advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide", suggesting that there are also Dexterity (Stealth) checks made for other purposes. Similarly, the <em>boots of elvenkind</em> gives "advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks that rely on moving silently". This all lines up with what these items did in those prior editions when Hide and Move Silently were distinct. Furthermore, the description of the <em>cloak</em> goes on to say that the reason it provides advantage on checks to hide is because "the cloak's color shifts to camouflage you", which of course is a purely visual effect. And, of course, there is the matter of common English usage. If I'm sneaking quietly down the hallway but making no attempt to conceal myself from sight, it seems strange to call what I'm doing "hiding".</p><p></p><p>Of course, if I'm sitting behind a wall but making a lot of noise, I wouldn't say I'm "hiding" then either -- or at least, not doing it very well. Not all silence is hiding, but silence does seem to be a necessary component of hiding. This could explain why the <em>cloak</em> and <em>boots</em> use slightly different language ("to hide" vs. "that rely on moving silently") as well as the way invisibility works, but I may be overinterpreting the writers there. Regardless, it seems pretty clear to me that when you're trying to move silently without concealing yourself from sight, whether because you're invisible or just because the people you're worried about hearing you are in a different room, that is not the sort of Dexterity (Stealth) check to which the <em>cloak of elvenkind's</em> benefit applies. There may a nonvisibility component to hiding, but it's the visibility component that makes it hiding and that makes the <em>cloak</em> useful.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 7054481, member: 6683613"] The 5E rules for Stealth are notoriously fuzzy. I'm not going to pretend that there is a printed hard-and-fast distinction between "hiding" and "moving silently" that you overlooked, because there isn't. However, the distinction did exist in previous editions. And the [I]cloak of elvenkind[/I] gives "advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide", suggesting that there are also Dexterity (Stealth) checks made for other purposes. Similarly, the [I]boots of elvenkind[/I] gives "advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks that rely on moving silently". This all lines up with what these items did in those prior editions when Hide and Move Silently were distinct. Furthermore, the description of the [I]cloak[/I] goes on to say that the reason it provides advantage on checks to hide is because "the cloak's color shifts to camouflage you", which of course is a purely visual effect. And, of course, there is the matter of common English usage. If I'm sneaking quietly down the hallway but making no attempt to conceal myself from sight, it seems strange to call what I'm doing "hiding". Of course, if I'm sitting behind a wall but making a lot of noise, I wouldn't say I'm "hiding" then either -- or at least, not doing it very well. Not all silence is hiding, but silence does seem to be a necessary component of hiding. This could explain why the [I]cloak[/I] and [I]boots[/I] use slightly different language ("to hide" vs. "that rely on moving silently") as well as the way invisibility works, but I may be overinterpreting the writers there. Regardless, it seems pretty clear to me that when you're trying to move silently without concealing yourself from sight, whether because you're invisible or just because the people you're worried about hearing you are in a different room, that is not the sort of Dexterity (Stealth) check to which the [I]cloak of elvenkind's[/I] benefit applies. There may a nonvisibility component to hiding, but it's the visibility component that makes it hiding and that makes the [I]cloak[/I] useful. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Invsibility vs Cloak of Elvenkind
Top