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Invsibility vs Cloak of Elvenkind
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<blockquote data-quote="auburn2" data-source="post: 7055846" data-attributes="member: 6855259"><p>I think people are overengineering this. Invisibility does not grant a disadvantage on the check - it causes AUTOMATIC FAILURE to a creature trying to find you with sight.</p><p></p><p>Whether that automatic failure applies in a given situation is completely dependent on that situation. A creature with blindsight would be unaffected completely by invisibility. A man you were in the middle of a fight with would know where you were when you disappeared, whether or not he is able to find you again depends - are you still right next to him, are yo making noise. I garauntee you this he would be trying to find you by means other than just his sight and a disadvantage (or perhaps advantage) would apply depending on the given situation. </p><p></p><p>Now if you are sneaking it would depend. Sneaking pas a person on top of a tower, in broad daylight with a loud noisy, smelly city around him I might go with automatic failure (he is not really using any senses other than sight), if it is the middle of the night and you re trying to sneak up on a camp with a guard and a dog over ground with a bunch of dead leaves I might not apply disadvantage at all and actually might even give advantage despite the invisibility because sight is not the primary sense they are relying on.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the bear in the woods comment I agree somewhat but I would argue that is what skill checks are all about. The rogue sneaking up on the camp above for example. Failed stealth check ok the dogs ears perk up and he lifts his head. The guard is alerted and stands up peering into the gloom with his crossbow. You take another step, fail a check and break a twig, the guard clearly heard that but - is it the wind, is it a a grizzlley, is it his imagination or is it an invisible rogue sneaking up on the camp. A combination of perception, survival, insight and investigation checks should resolve this depending on the exact situation and that is what I think skills like that are there for. A ranger in his favored terrain would likely know it is NOT a grizzley and NOT imagination or the wind based on a survival check (or maybe even without one), does he recognize it is an invisible rogue though? Probably another skill check of some sort depending on his actions and the hidden character's actions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="auburn2, post: 7055846, member: 6855259"] I think people are overengineering this. Invisibility does not grant a disadvantage on the check - it causes AUTOMATIC FAILURE to a creature trying to find you with sight. Whether that automatic failure applies in a given situation is completely dependent on that situation. A creature with blindsight would be unaffected completely by invisibility. A man you were in the middle of a fight with would know where you were when you disappeared, whether or not he is able to find you again depends - are you still right next to him, are yo making noise. I garauntee you this he would be trying to find you by means other than just his sight and a disadvantage (or perhaps advantage) would apply depending on the given situation. Now if you are sneaking it would depend. Sneaking pas a person on top of a tower, in broad daylight with a loud noisy, smelly city around him I might go with automatic failure (he is not really using any senses other than sight), if it is the middle of the night and you re trying to sneak up on a camp with a guard and a dog over ground with a bunch of dead leaves I might not apply disadvantage at all and actually might even give advantage despite the invisibility because sight is not the primary sense they are relying on. Regarding the bear in the woods comment I agree somewhat but I would argue that is what skill checks are all about. The rogue sneaking up on the camp above for example. Failed stealth check ok the dogs ears perk up and he lifts his head. The guard is alerted and stands up peering into the gloom with his crossbow. You take another step, fail a check and break a twig, the guard clearly heard that but - is it the wind, is it a a grizzlley, is it his imagination or is it an invisible rogue sneaking up on the camp. A combination of perception, survival, insight and investigation checks should resolve this depending on the exact situation and that is what I think skills like that are there for. A ranger in his favored terrain would likely know it is NOT a grizzley and NOT imagination or the wind based on a survival check (or maybe even without one), does he recognize it is an invisible rogue though? Probably another skill check of some sort depending on his actions and the hidden character's actions. [/QUOTE]
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