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Invsibility vs Cloak of Elvenkind
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7057239" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Couple of things:</p><p></p><p>1) You've misused the Pauli Exclusion Principle. There's plenty of empty space for a person and a rock to coexist by being physically interpenetrated without invoking the principle. In fact, if you just randomly stuck things together, you'd still almost never run into a Pauli exception.</p><p></p><p>2) Your argument about the stump versus empty space doesn't hold water. You keep invoking additional assumptions to make your argument work, and those assumptions don't hold. If the guard knows exactly where the sound comes from, seeing nothing or seeing a rock doesn't change that he knows something is there. This is the nature of the check result that you've presented -- the guard knows. Seeing nothing, you assume the guard would discount the clear visual evidence of nothing there (lack of evidence, in this case, is evidence) and investigate. But you then assume that the guard, with the same certainty of presence, would never investigate a rock that made the sounds he knows occurred. Either you are postulating the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal as your guard, or he has serious mental issues. Neither is a general state, so the guard should investigate the rock as much as he investigates the empty space.</p><p></p><p>3) You actually narrate both results of a check with advantage? How does that work for you?</p><p></p><p>4) Your entire argument begs the question. The issue is why does a cloak of elvenkind provide advantage on stealth checks, but invisibility does not. Your answer is an example where the cloak of elvenkind invokes strange guard logic to succeed at a stealth check while invisibility fails a stealth check, which assumes the answer as evidence of the answer. To clarify, to show why a cloak works better than invisibility, your example is one where a cloak wearer makes his contests roll while the invisibility user fails theirs. Hard to see how that works as proof, being totally uneven in outcome to begin with. It's a bad construct, which is probably why it requires so many additional assumptions on one side while discarding similar assumptions on the other to prop up. Poorly.</p><p></p><p>5) I really thought I had another point, but I've misplaced it. Now, the question is, is it invisible or wearing a cloak of elvenkind....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7057239, member: 16814"] Couple of things: 1) You've misused the Pauli Exclusion Principle. There's plenty of empty space for a person and a rock to coexist by being physically interpenetrated without invoking the principle. In fact, if you just randomly stuck things together, you'd still almost never run into a Pauli exception. 2) Your argument about the stump versus empty space doesn't hold water. You keep invoking additional assumptions to make your argument work, and those assumptions don't hold. If the guard knows exactly where the sound comes from, seeing nothing or seeing a rock doesn't change that he knows something is there. This is the nature of the check result that you've presented -- the guard knows. Seeing nothing, you assume the guard would discount the clear visual evidence of nothing there (lack of evidence, in this case, is evidence) and investigate. But you then assume that the guard, with the same certainty of presence, would never investigate a rock that made the sounds he knows occurred. Either you are postulating the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal as your guard, or he has serious mental issues. Neither is a general state, so the guard should investigate the rock as much as he investigates the empty space. 3) You actually narrate both results of a check with advantage? How does that work for you? 4) Your entire argument begs the question. The issue is why does a cloak of elvenkind provide advantage on stealth checks, but invisibility does not. Your answer is an example where the cloak of elvenkind invokes strange guard logic to succeed at a stealth check while invisibility fails a stealth check, which assumes the answer as evidence of the answer. To clarify, to show why a cloak works better than invisibility, your example is one where a cloak wearer makes his contests roll while the invisibility user fails theirs. Hard to see how that works as proof, being totally uneven in outcome to begin with. It's a bad construct, which is probably why it requires so many additional assumptions on one side while discarding similar assumptions on the other to prop up. Poorly. 5) I really thought I had another point, but I've misplaced it. Now, the question is, is it invisible or wearing a cloak of elvenkind.... [/QUOTE]
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