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Invsibility vs Cloak of Elvenkind
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<blockquote data-quote="ClearlyTough69" data-source="post: 7060623" data-attributes="member: 6864123"><p>I'll preface my reply by saying this is a house rule - one that I've seen nobody else use, but which for me feels entirely congruent with RAW, and expressly acknowledges all those places in the rules that talk of Perception checks <em>relying</em> <em>on a particular sense </em>(for example the rule you quoted up-thread for lightly obscured areas, or all the beast with Keen Hearing, Keen Sight, or Keen Smell).</p><p></p><p>I'm ignoring dim light because I've already established that the ranger's Perception check relying on sight was too low to see the rogue: he literally can't see her in the dim light. However, I then go on to assess the Perception check as one relying on hearing. The ranger can hear the rogue just as well whether she's in blazing sunlight or in pitch darkness. So there's no disadvantage to his Perception check relying on hearing, which is now good enough to beat the rogue's Stealth check. By RAW that means the ranger now knows the rogue's exact position. He still can't see her (remember those shadows), but he can target her with disadvantage (following the rules for unseen targets).</p><p></p><p>The only advantage the rogue has lost is that of surprise; she can still attack the ranger with advantage (because she's unseen by him), meaning she can still benefit from sneak attack too.</p><p></p><p>Had the rogue been in total darkness, I would not even have bothered with a Perception check relying on sight, because, as the rules say, you are effectively blinded when looking into a heavily obscured area (this was not in the first printing of the PHB, but has been clarified in errata since). So any chance of perceiving the rogue relies on hearing (and I guess other senses) and nowhere in the rules does it say that such a Perception check suffers disadvantage owing to obscurement.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ClearlyTough69, post: 7060623, member: 6864123"] I'll preface my reply by saying this is a house rule - one that I've seen nobody else use, but which for me feels entirely congruent with RAW, and expressly acknowledges all those places in the rules that talk of Perception checks [I]relying[/I] [I]on a particular sense [/I](for example the rule you quoted up-thread for lightly obscured areas, or all the beast with Keen Hearing, Keen Sight, or Keen Smell). I'm ignoring dim light because I've already established that the ranger's Perception check relying on sight was too low to see the rogue: he literally can't see her in the dim light. However, I then go on to assess the Perception check as one relying on hearing. The ranger can hear the rogue just as well whether she's in blazing sunlight or in pitch darkness. So there's no disadvantage to his Perception check relying on hearing, which is now good enough to beat the rogue's Stealth check. By RAW that means the ranger now knows the rogue's exact position. He still can't see her (remember those shadows), but he can target her with disadvantage (following the rules for unseen targets). The only advantage the rogue has lost is that of surprise; she can still attack the ranger with advantage (because she's unseen by him), meaning she can still benefit from sneak attack too. Had the rogue been in total darkness, I would not even have bothered with a Perception check relying on sight, because, as the rules say, you are effectively blinded when looking into a heavily obscured area (this was not in the first printing of the PHB, but has been clarified in errata since). So any chance of perceiving the rogue relies on hearing (and I guess other senses) and nowhere in the rules does it say that such a Perception check suffers disadvantage owing to obscurement. [/QUOTE]
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