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IRON DM 2022 The Tournament Thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Wicht" data-source="post: 8767737" data-attributes="member: 221"><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><strong><u>Round 2, Match 2</u></strong></span></p><p><em>Snarf Zagyg</em> vs. <em>Kobold Stew</em></p><p></p><p>For our pleasure and enjoyment, [USER=7023840]@Snarf Zagyg[/USER] turned in <strong><em>Disco Party Athletes </em></strong> (hereafter <strong><em>Disco</em></strong>), not an adventure as such, but a 1 page rules-lite RPG of Dancing, Drugs and Weirdness.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, [USER=23484]@Kobold Stew[/USER] offers us a more traditional sort of entry, <strong><em>Sweet Dreams are Made of Bees</em></strong> (hereafter <strong><em>Bees</em></strong>), which is ambitious in its own way, being presented less as a single adventure and more as a complete campaign outline.</p><p></p><p>I’m going to follow a slightly different format for this judgment because we have two such very different entries and the normal back and forth is not going to work so I will be looking at them singly, on their own merits and then rendering a judgment.</p><p></p><p>Also, though outside events have interjected themselves into the match, and may have even influenced one of the entries, I am not going to allow that to color my verdict, but will critique as normal using the standards routinely followed for these things.</p><p></p><p>Both entries were turned in on time and under word-count.</p><p></p><p>[spoiler=”Critiquing Disco”]</p><p>Let’s start by talking about how Disco uses the ingredients given, and in many ways it is this usage which prompted me to look at the two entries separately. The stated goal of Iron DM is to take a set of ingredients and then craft an adventure around them, using them creatively to tell a story. Ideally, the ingredients are used in such a way as to be integral to the adventure. I tend to mark down for ingredients that are back-story, but I also tend to mark down for ingredients that the PCs may never actually encounter; for instance if an ingredient is presented as one of two outcomes of a choice the PCs are called to make, then there is a 50% chance that the ingredient doesn’t actually matter and that makes it less than optimal.</p><p></p><p>While Disco is in many ways a clever entry which showcases Snarf’s strengths as a writer, the ingredient use is not optimal for this contest. Of all the ingredients, the only one I would give full points to would be dancing lights, which is used as an option the PCs may or may not encounter, but is also infused throughout the theme of the entry.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, I would give minimal points for the two ingredients of Golden Honey and Cave Paintings. Golden Honey is used as nothing more than a description of how a ghoul tastes (who tastes ghouls?) or a PC’s voice. and Cave Paintings is morphed into paintings in an unfinished room. There was an attempt to use the ingredients, but they’re both as weak as could be.</p><p></p><p>The rest, I would generously count as being used, but not much more. They are each used as part of a list of possible things that might happen, but they are in no way integral to the “adventure,” and in most cases the players will never encounter them.</p><p></p><p>Which brings me to the use of lists in game design, and some thoughts thereon.</p><p></p><p>Let me first interject, however, and say that Snarf is a good writer, creative, and has an ability to cleverly paint a picture with a twist of a phrase and a minimum of words. His ability to quickly put forth a plausible set of rules for a rules-lite, make it up on the fly, one-page RPG is impressive and shows game-design chops. I’m going to be a bit critical, but it’s the sort of criticism that acknowledges the talent being critiqued.</p><p></p><p>But concerning lists in games and adventures… Firstly, from a play perspective, in my opinion, tables designed to generate random content and events, which are essentially a kind of numbered list, are good fun and I heartedly approve their use. As a DM/GM they give an ability to randomize the story you are telling and provide on the spot inspiration. They also can add a nice bit of whimsy to a game, which I always like. Random-Table-generated-in-game-content has a place at my game table and always will. I love product which has them, whether it be the many tables of the TOON RPG or the random race generators of the classic Reincarnation spell. But, on the other hand, when considered from a designer’s perspective, lists are a lazy way of telling a story because you are essentially asking the participants to do it for you. And I say this as someone who has put random tables in stuff I have written. Its some of the quickest, easiest writing to do because you simply have to jot down ideas and number them, you don’t have to cohesively tie them together in an over-arching story.</p><p></p><p>As the whole goal of Iron DM is to take a disparate set of ingredients and find a way to weave them together into a cohesive story, presenting the ingredients as nothing more than entries on a random generator, even if you have given a bit more flesh to the words, is to fail at that central contest goal of fashioning some sort of cohesive narrative.</p><p></p><p>This means, from a utilitarian perspective, Snarf’s entry is quite useable, but from a contest perspective, its not really a good entry.</p><p></p><p>That being said, from a personal perspective, I am absolutely not the target audience for this mini-rpg. Some years doing fostering, an adoption of a child who has ongoing trauma, and related matters has made it absolutely certain that the idea of casual drugs being fun and whimsical is not a thing going to ever be accepted in my house. I am certain there is an audience for such material. Cards against Humanity is a thing with a market segment. But it’s a hard pass for my game table. I won’t elaborate too much on this, it is what it is. And were that not a central conceit of the game as presented, I would find it a lot more appealing, for much of the other material is stuff that I would use. But as presented, though I understand the game, and can appreciate its potential, it’s not my cup of tea.</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>[spoiler=”Critiquing Bees”]</p><p>So let’s look at the ingredients usage in <strong><em>Bees</em></strong>. <strong><em>Cursed Dreamcatcher</em></strong> is good, and having the PCs help build the giant magical trap is also very good. The usage of <strong><em>dancing lights</em></strong> ties in nicely to the dream catcher, and overall I approve. This is good use of ingredients, making them interact with one another like this in what feels like a natural way. I am not quite as sold on <strong><em>Erudite Goat</em></strong>, focusing on its latter usage rather than its first casual mention. It feels a bit tacked on and unnecessary, though I do appreciate how the whole of the presentation helps create a dream-land whimsical quality.</p><p></p><p>The <strong><em>destitute dragon</em></strong> is a bit hit an miss in my opinion. I like the conceit of a sleeping dragon at the center of Dream. It is, in point of fact, a conceit I am employing in an epic campaign of my own I am writing also set in Dream. On the other hand, I get some mixed signals from this dragon. Does it know it is destitute? How does the destitution affect its behavior. I understand that the bees have been plundering it, but then it's able to give gifts anyway. I like the quest to wake the dragon, but feel that the whole doesn’t flow quite smoothly, narratively. Jumping ahead to <strong><em>cave paintings</em></strong>, I get a similar hit and miss sort of feel in the use. I think I sort of understand the dreamy prophecy sort of feel being attempted, but it still feels like it needs a little polishing in its presentation. I’ll try and return to this thought.</p><p></p><p>The <strong><em>devouring dungeon</em></strong> being the internal workings of the dragon is a neat idea, and though I think the “devouring” is a bit of a stretch, it still appeals to me.</p><p></p><p>The final ingredient then to consider is that of the<strong><em> golden honey</em></strong>, which though I have some questions about, they’re mostly subsumed by the dreamy feel of the entry, and the process of turning dream gold into dream honey and then using it to pay the adventurers is a nice little use. There is some clunkiness to the presentation, but this is not an ingredient problem so much as a presentation problem.</p><p></p><p>Overall, I like the general outline of the adventure. I think it is somewhat hurt by two things. Firstly, there was no need to present it as a campaign. In fact, the suggestions as to how many sessions to devote to each part was not only unnecessary, (and eats up unnecessary words that could be put to better use elsewhere) but made me stop and ask if I thought they were accurate. I am not sure this needs to be that long of a campaign, though I can see it going more than a single session. The other thing that hurts it is that it feels somewhat unfinished. Part of this is polish, it could use a bit more editing. Some of it is the uncertainty of the presentation. Consider for instance the sentence: “<em>Possibly there are mining towns with astral prospectors.</em>” Are there or aren’t there? If its your story, your creation... you tell me if there are, or are not. Getting rid of the word “possibly” would both strengthen the entry and help with word-count. Likewise, don’t tell me what “may” happen, tell me what “will” happen. Moreover, some of the connections being attempted, as with the dream-cave before and after, are less than clear to me as to their purpose. Overall, it just feels like it needs a little bit more editing and tightening to truly shine its brightest as an entry.</p><p></p><p>Still, Dream appeals to me on both a personal and professional level, with the whimsy and the potential epic nature of the plane and this adventure has real potential for a romp through Dream. Also, I really like the title. And the use of bees. Overall, there is a lot of small things about this entry that rubs me right. I just wish it was a bit more polished so it would be a bit easier to grok and use.</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER=”THE VERDICT”]</p><p>I think it should be no surprise, reaching this point, that I think <strong><em>Sweet Dreams are made of Bees</em></strong> is the winner of this round. Not surprising, because I think Snarf knew he was turning in an entry that was potentially fun, but not his best material nor likely to win (and he said as much). But also, I think that though Bees has some weaknesses, needing a bit more polish as I said, it also has decent ingredient use, tying things together nicely into a package with good adventure material. I do think that Kobold Stew needs to tighten his writing a little to be more competitive in the third round, but idea wise, there is a lot to like in what he gave us.</p><p></p><p>So my vote this round is for Kobold Stew and Sweet Dream are Made of Bees.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Disco Party Athletes</u></strong></p><p><strong>Followed the Rules:</strong> 6 points</p><p><strong>Ingredient Use:</strong> 7 points</p><p>Cursed Dreamcatcher 1</p><p>Erudite Goat 1</p><p>Destitute Dragon 1</p><p>Devouring Dungeon 1</p><p>Dancing Lights 2</p><p>Golden Honey .5</p><p>Cave Paintings .5</p><p><strong><em>Useability</em>:</strong> 4 points</p><p><strong>Style:</strong> 2</p><p><strong><u>Total</u></strong>: 19/32</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Sweet Dreams are made of Bees</u></strong></p><p><strong>Followed the Rules:</strong> 6 points</p><p><strong>Ingredient Use:</strong> 11 points</p><p>Cursed Dreamcatcher 2</p><p>Erudite Goat 1.5</p><p>Destitute Dragon 1</p><p>Devouring Dungeon 2</p><p>Dancing Lights 2</p><p>Golden Honey 1.5</p><p>Cave Paintings 1</p><p><strong>Useability:</strong> 4 points</p><p><strong>Style:</strong> 5 points</p><p><strong><u>Total</u></strong>: 26/32</p><p></p><p>This means by a unanimous decision of the judges (two in a row), Kobold Stew advances to round 3.[/SPOILER]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wicht, post: 8767737, member: 221"] [SIZE=5][B][U]Round 2, Match 2[/U][/B][/SIZE] [I]Snarf Zagyg[/I] vs. [I]Kobold Stew[/I] For our pleasure and enjoyment, [USER=7023840]@Snarf Zagyg[/USER] turned in [B][I]Disco Party Athletes [/I][/B] (hereafter [B][I]Disco[/I][/B]), not an adventure as such, but a 1 page rules-lite RPG of Dancing, Drugs and Weirdness. On the other hand, [USER=23484]@Kobold Stew[/USER] offers us a more traditional sort of entry, [B][I]Sweet Dreams are Made of Bees[/I][/B] (hereafter [B][I]Bees[/I][/B]), which is ambitious in its own way, being presented less as a single adventure and more as a complete campaign outline. I’m going to follow a slightly different format for this judgment because we have two such very different entries and the normal back and forth is not going to work so I will be looking at them singly, on their own merits and then rendering a judgment. Also, though outside events have interjected themselves into the match, and may have even influenced one of the entries, I am not going to allow that to color my verdict, but will critique as normal using the standards routinely followed for these things. Both entries were turned in on time and under word-count. [spoiler=”Critiquing Disco”] Let’s start by talking about how Disco uses the ingredients given, and in many ways it is this usage which prompted me to look at the two entries separately. The stated goal of Iron DM is to take a set of ingredients and then craft an adventure around them, using them creatively to tell a story. Ideally, the ingredients are used in such a way as to be integral to the adventure. I tend to mark down for ingredients that are back-story, but I also tend to mark down for ingredients that the PCs may never actually encounter; for instance if an ingredient is presented as one of two outcomes of a choice the PCs are called to make, then there is a 50% chance that the ingredient doesn’t actually matter and that makes it less than optimal. While Disco is in many ways a clever entry which showcases Snarf’s strengths as a writer, the ingredient use is not optimal for this contest. Of all the ingredients, the only one I would give full points to would be dancing lights, which is used as an option the PCs may or may not encounter, but is also infused throughout the theme of the entry. On the other hand, I would give minimal points for the two ingredients of Golden Honey and Cave Paintings. Golden Honey is used as nothing more than a description of how a ghoul tastes (who tastes ghouls?) or a PC’s voice. and Cave Paintings is morphed into paintings in an unfinished room. There was an attempt to use the ingredients, but they’re both as weak as could be. The rest, I would generously count as being used, but not much more. They are each used as part of a list of possible things that might happen, but they are in no way integral to the “adventure,” and in most cases the players will never encounter them. Which brings me to the use of lists in game design, and some thoughts thereon. Let me first interject, however, and say that Snarf is a good writer, creative, and has an ability to cleverly paint a picture with a twist of a phrase and a minimum of words. His ability to quickly put forth a plausible set of rules for a rules-lite, make it up on the fly, one-page RPG is impressive and shows game-design chops. I’m going to be a bit critical, but it’s the sort of criticism that acknowledges the talent being critiqued. But concerning lists in games and adventures… Firstly, from a play perspective, in my opinion, tables designed to generate random content and events, which are essentially a kind of numbered list, are good fun and I heartedly approve their use. As a DM/GM they give an ability to randomize the story you are telling and provide on the spot inspiration. They also can add a nice bit of whimsy to a game, which I always like. Random-Table-generated-in-game-content has a place at my game table and always will. I love product which has them, whether it be the many tables of the TOON RPG or the random race generators of the classic Reincarnation spell. But, on the other hand, when considered from a designer’s perspective, lists are a lazy way of telling a story because you are essentially asking the participants to do it for you. And I say this as someone who has put random tables in stuff I have written. Its some of the quickest, easiest writing to do because you simply have to jot down ideas and number them, you don’t have to cohesively tie them together in an over-arching story. As the whole goal of Iron DM is to take a disparate set of ingredients and find a way to weave them together into a cohesive story, presenting the ingredients as nothing more than entries on a random generator, even if you have given a bit more flesh to the words, is to fail at that central contest goal of fashioning some sort of cohesive narrative. This means, from a utilitarian perspective, Snarf’s entry is quite useable, but from a contest perspective, its not really a good entry. That being said, from a personal perspective, I am absolutely not the target audience for this mini-rpg. Some years doing fostering, an adoption of a child who has ongoing trauma, and related matters has made it absolutely certain that the idea of casual drugs being fun and whimsical is not a thing going to ever be accepted in my house. I am certain there is an audience for such material. Cards against Humanity is a thing with a market segment. But it’s a hard pass for my game table. I won’t elaborate too much on this, it is what it is. And were that not a central conceit of the game as presented, I would find it a lot more appealing, for much of the other material is stuff that I would use. But as presented, though I understand the game, and can appreciate its potential, it’s not my cup of tea. [/spoiler] [spoiler=”Critiquing Bees”] So let’s look at the ingredients usage in [B][I]Bees[/I][/B]. [B][I]Cursed Dreamcatcher[/I][/B] is good, and having the PCs help build the giant magical trap is also very good. The usage of [B][I]dancing lights[/I][/B] ties in nicely to the dream catcher, and overall I approve. This is good use of ingredients, making them interact with one another like this in what feels like a natural way. I am not quite as sold on [B][I]Erudite Goat[/I][/B], focusing on its latter usage rather than its first casual mention. It feels a bit tacked on and unnecessary, though I do appreciate how the whole of the presentation helps create a dream-land whimsical quality. The [B][I]destitute dragon[/I][/B] is a bit hit an miss in my opinion. I like the conceit of a sleeping dragon at the center of Dream. It is, in point of fact, a conceit I am employing in an epic campaign of my own I am writing also set in Dream. On the other hand, I get some mixed signals from this dragon. Does it know it is destitute? How does the destitution affect its behavior. I understand that the bees have been plundering it, but then it's able to give gifts anyway. I like the quest to wake the dragon, but feel that the whole doesn’t flow quite smoothly, narratively. Jumping ahead to [B][I]cave paintings[/I][/B], I get a similar hit and miss sort of feel in the use. I think I sort of understand the dreamy prophecy sort of feel being attempted, but it still feels like it needs a little polishing in its presentation. I’ll try and return to this thought. The [B][I]devouring dungeon[/I][/B] being the internal workings of the dragon is a neat idea, and though I think the “devouring” is a bit of a stretch, it still appeals to me. The final ingredient then to consider is that of the[B][I] golden honey[/I][/B], which though I have some questions about, they’re mostly subsumed by the dreamy feel of the entry, and the process of turning dream gold into dream honey and then using it to pay the adventurers is a nice little use. There is some clunkiness to the presentation, but this is not an ingredient problem so much as a presentation problem. Overall, I like the general outline of the adventure. I think it is somewhat hurt by two things. Firstly, there was no need to present it as a campaign. In fact, the suggestions as to how many sessions to devote to each part was not only unnecessary, (and eats up unnecessary words that could be put to better use elsewhere) but made me stop and ask if I thought they were accurate. I am not sure this needs to be that long of a campaign, though I can see it going more than a single session. The other thing that hurts it is that it feels somewhat unfinished. Part of this is polish, it could use a bit more editing. Some of it is the uncertainty of the presentation. Consider for instance the sentence: “[I]Possibly there are mining towns with astral prospectors.[/I]” Are there or aren’t there? If its your story, your creation... you tell me if there are, or are not. Getting rid of the word “possibly” would both strengthen the entry and help with word-count. Likewise, don’t tell me what “may” happen, tell me what “will” happen. Moreover, some of the connections being attempted, as with the dream-cave before and after, are less than clear to me as to their purpose. Overall, it just feels like it needs a little bit more editing and tightening to truly shine its brightest as an entry. Still, Dream appeals to me on both a personal and professional level, with the whimsy and the potential epic nature of the plane and this adventure has real potential for a romp through Dream. Also, I really like the title. And the use of bees. Overall, there is a lot of small things about this entry that rubs me right. I just wish it was a bit more polished so it would be a bit easier to grok and use. [/spoiler] [SPOILER=”THE VERDICT”] I think it should be no surprise, reaching this point, that I think [B][I]Sweet Dreams are made of Bees[/I][/B] is the winner of this round. Not surprising, because I think Snarf knew he was turning in an entry that was potentially fun, but not his best material nor likely to win (and he said as much). But also, I think that though Bees has some weaknesses, needing a bit more polish as I said, it also has decent ingredient use, tying things together nicely into a package with good adventure material. I do think that Kobold Stew needs to tighten his writing a little to be more competitive in the third round, but idea wise, there is a lot to like in what he gave us. So my vote this round is for Kobold Stew and Sweet Dream are Made of Bees. [B][U]Disco Party Athletes[/U] Followed the Rules:[/B] 6 points [B]Ingredient Use:[/B] 7 points Cursed Dreamcatcher 1 Erudite Goat 1 Destitute Dragon 1 Devouring Dungeon 1 Dancing Lights 2 Golden Honey .5 Cave Paintings .5 [B][I]Useability[/I]:[/B] 4 points [B]Style:[/B] 2 [B][U]Total[/U][/B]: 19/32 [B][U]Sweet Dreams are made of Bees[/U] Followed the Rules:[/B] 6 points [B]Ingredient Use:[/B] 11 points Cursed Dreamcatcher 2 Erudite Goat 1.5 Destitute Dragon 1 Devouring Dungeon 2 Dancing Lights 2 Golden Honey 1.5 Cave Paintings 1 [B]Useability:[/B] 4 points [B]Style:[/B] 5 points [B][U]Total[/U][/B]: 26/32 This means by a unanimous decision of the judges (two in a row), Kobold Stew advances to round 3.[/SPOILER] [/QUOTE]
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