Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
IRON DM 2023 Tournament Thread
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Wicht" data-source="post: 9196298" data-attributes="member: 221"><p><strong>Iron DM 2023 Round 2 Match 2</strong></p><p><strong>[USER=7023840]@Snarf Zagyg[/USER] vs. [USER=60965]@Iron Sky[/USER] </strong></p><p></p><p>Of all the rounds I have seen thus far in this year’s Iron DM contest, this was the hardest one for me to decide which one I liked better, Snarf’s “E<em>veryone has gone to the Rageture</em>” (hearafter <strong><em>Rage</em></strong>), or Iron Sky’s “<em>The Doom’s of Songport</em>” (hearafter <strong><em>Songport</em></strong>). One of them, I think, did a better job with the ingredients and one of them definitely appeals to me more. This one is going to be a very close decision on my part.</p><p></p><p>Both entries were turned in on time, and both were under the word-count.</p><p></p><p>Looking at the ingredients, I will acknowledge we had some tricky ones, and I was interested to see what would be done with them. Both entries went in wildly divergent ways with each of the ingredients, showing the breadth of possibility in linguistic interpretations.</p><p></p><p>For instance, our first ingredient, <strong>Scary Stickers</strong> was interpreted as very deadly leeches in <strong><em>Rage</em></strong>, and as literal magical stickers in <strong><em>Songport</em></strong>. While the stickers were more integral to the plot of <strong><em>Songport</em></strong>, they were definitely more frightening in <strong><em>Rage</em></strong>. I am going to call this use a draw, and am satisfied with both offerings.</p><p></p><p>Not so with the <strong>city in a bottle</strong> ingredient. I think the city in the bottle in <strong><em>Songport </em></strong>is the better use. While I understand the stretch that makes the isolation of the city in <strong><em>Rage </em></strong>a “bottle,” the act of carrying around an actual whole city in <strong><em>Songport</em></strong>, with the understanding that the lives of the interior population is in the hands of the PCs, is a much more powerful use.</p><p></p><p>With the next ingredient, <strong>Misunderstood Owlbear</strong>, I am not completely happy with either use, but neither am I completely unhappy. It’s a bit of a wash, and for similar reasons in both. The owlbears in each entry are both misunderstood. In <strong><em>Rage</em></strong>, it is presumed that the owlbears are villains, when in fact they are the plucky good-guys. In <strong><em>Songport</em></strong>, it is thought that the owlbear killed a bear, when in fact it is the bear. So far, so good, but… in each case the owlbear is not really an owlbear. In the first it’s a human under an illusion, and in the second, it’s a transmuted bear. So, again, a draw.</p><p></p><p><strong>Copper Kettle</strong>, likewise, has similar issues in both offerings. In <strong><em>Rage</em></strong>, the cauldron used to make the rad shades is copper, and a macguffin used to drive the character’s actions. In <strong><em>Songport </em></strong>it is the magical pitcher used to cleanse water. In neither case do I think it particularly important that the kettle be copper. And in neither case do I think it necessary that it be a kettle. So both are in my opinion weak uses.</p><p></p><p><em>[Spoiler=”Postscript Judge’s note”]<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><strong>Edited to add</strong>: Having finished my own judgment and reading Radiating Gnome’s, I want to interject a disagreement with my esteemed colleague on the use of cauldron and kettle. A kettle being any vessel able to boil water in, a cauldron is rightly defined as a kind of kettle. I don’t find Rage’s use here to be a cheat; I will note as a counterpoint that I think its actually Songport which plays loose with kettle, as I read Songport’s copper vessel as being more of a pitcher. Still, other than that I think Radiating Gnome and I had very similar takes on each ingredient.</span> [/spoiler]</em></p><p></p><p>In <strong>Sword of Echoing Sin</strong>, I think <strong><em>Songport </em></strong>has the definite better use, even though I think its not all that creative of a use, as its just taking the words of the ingredient and applying them in a very literal way and smashing it into the story. But the sword which fills the PCs in on the backstory is a sword, and it does bring up the mistakes of the past. On the other hand, the sword in <strong><em>Rage </em></strong>is not a sword, it’s a missile, and though it does reflect on past errors (nuclear annihilation), it seems a bit of a stretch for the ingredient use.</p><p></p><p>I’m going to actually, in <strong>uncaring bears</strong>, give the nod to <strong><em>Rage</em></strong>. The uncaring bears in <strong><em>Songport </em></strong>are just that, bears that don’t care, I’m not sure that makes them all that different from any other bear, if you were to ask your typical bear about elections, the speed limit, or the price of butter in Mongolia. Bears just don't care about the questions that plague us. So really, the uncaring bears in <strong><em>Songport </em></strong>are just typical bears. On the other hand, the bears in <strong><em>Rage </em></strong>are the true villains, without pity for the lives they manipulate and ruin. My main beef with <strong><em>Rage’s </em></strong>bears is I am not sure why they have to be bears, other than the ingredient called for it. They could just as easily been the descendants of house-cats, bees, or three-toed sloths. But I still give this one ingredient to <strong><em>Rage </em></strong>as being better used.</p><p></p><p>Which brings me then to the<strong> Silent Choir</strong>. In both cases I think there are problems with the ingredient use. The silent choir of <strong><em>Rage</em></strong>, the howling dogs which attack with a frequency too high to hear, are not really silent, nor are they strictly speaking a choir. On the other hand, the silent banshees of <strong><em>Songport</em></strong>, are perhaps a choir, but the goal is to make them not be silent. In both cases I see and understand the use, but I’m not really moved by either ingredient.</p><p></p><p>So all that being said, I find that on the whole, Songport definitely has the lead in ingredient use. The ingredients in Rage take the words and seem intent on twisting them in some way so as to make them mean something unique. In one case, the scary stickers, I think this works. Mostly though, I think it just makes the use weak, and one one case for sure, the Sword, I am tempted to award no points at all for the ingredient. On the other hand, Songport seems to read each ingredient as literally as possible, and while this makes the story presented as a whole feel less organic and more like a motley of disconnected ingredients, it does mean that each ingredient gets used in a respectable way.</p><p></p><p>But this brings me to the fact that I personally like Rage much better as an adventure. I will fully confess that I frequently am less than completely enamored with the attempt to make each Iron DM entry a stand-alone indy game. I think, typically, it hurts the entries. In this one case though, I think Snarf really pulls it off and presents a working adventure, with its own set of internal mechanics that do a good job of presenting the story. This is one I would like to actually play; and I think as well the story mostly works. As far as an adventure goes, I think Rage has the clear advantage.</p><p></p><p>Songport feels all over the place to me, with fungal invasion, warring druids, a city-state with a past. I think if I ran Songport, my players would end up confused at some point, and losing track of what it is they are supposed to be doing. This is not to say I think the adventure to be without merit; but I definitely think it needs tightened up, focused better, and presented more cleanly.</p><p></p><p>So personally, I like Rage better. Songport has the better technical use of the Ingredients. Which one wins?</p><p></p><p>[spoiler=”Judgment”]</p><p>In this case, by the very narrowest of margins, I am going to have to go with <em>Everyone has gone to the Ragetur</em>, and my vote is for Snarf Zagyg to advance.</p><p></p><p>I see that once more Radiating Gnome and I are split on this (<em>though mostly, I observe, in agreement about the general merits of each</em>), and so once more it falls to Gradine to resolve the tie.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Everyone has gone to the Rageture</u> (Rage)</strong></p><p><strong>Follows Rules 6</strong></p><p><strong>Ingredient Use</strong></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Scary Stickers 2</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">City in a Bottle 1</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Misunderstood Owlbear 1.5</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Copper Kettle 1</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Sword of Echoing Sin .5</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Uncaring Bears 1.5</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Silent Choir 1 <strong>(total 8.5/14)</strong></p><p><strong>Useability 5</strong></p><p><strong>Appeal 5</strong></p><p><strong><u>TOTAL SCORE 24.5/32</u></strong></p><p><strong><u></u></strong></p><p><strong><u>The Dooms of Songport </u>(Songport)</strong></p><p><strong>Follows Rules 6</strong></p><p><strong>Ingredients</strong></p><p>Scary Stickers 2</p><p>City in a Bottle 2</p><p>Misunderstood Owlbear 1.5</p><p>Copper Kettle 1</p><p>Sword of Echoing Sin 1.5</p><p>Uncaring Bears 1</p><p>Silent Choir 1 <strong>(total 10/14)</strong></p><p><strong>Useability 4 </strong></p><p><strong>Appeal 4</strong></p><p><strong>TOTAL SCORE 24/32</strong>[/spoiler]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wicht, post: 9196298, member: 221"] [B]Iron DM 2023 Round 2 Match 2 [USER=7023840]@Snarf Zagyg[/USER] vs. [USER=60965]@Iron Sky[/USER] [/B] Of all the rounds I have seen thus far in this year’s Iron DM contest, this was the hardest one for me to decide which one I liked better, Snarf’s “E[I]veryone has gone to the Rageture[/I]” (hearafter [B][I]Rage[/I][/B]), or Iron Sky’s “[I]The Doom’s of Songport[/I]” (hearafter [B][I]Songport[/I][/B]). One of them, I think, did a better job with the ingredients and one of them definitely appeals to me more. This one is going to be a very close decision on my part. Both entries were turned in on time, and both were under the word-count. Looking at the ingredients, I will acknowledge we had some tricky ones, and I was interested to see what would be done with them. Both entries went in wildly divergent ways with each of the ingredients, showing the breadth of possibility in linguistic interpretations. For instance, our first ingredient, [B]Scary Stickers[/B] was interpreted as very deadly leeches in [B][I]Rage[/I][/B], and as literal magical stickers in [B][I]Songport[/I][/B]. While the stickers were more integral to the plot of [B][I]Songport[/I][/B], they were definitely more frightening in [B][I]Rage[/I][/B]. I am going to call this use a draw, and am satisfied with both offerings. Not so with the [B]city in a bottle[/B] ingredient. I think the city in the bottle in [B][I]Songport [/I][/B]is the better use. While I understand the stretch that makes the isolation of the city in [B][I]Rage [/I][/B]a “bottle,” the act of carrying around an actual whole city in [B][I]Songport[/I][/B], with the understanding that the lives of the interior population is in the hands of the PCs, is a much more powerful use. With the next ingredient, [B]Misunderstood Owlbear[/B], I am not completely happy with either use, but neither am I completely unhappy. It’s a bit of a wash, and for similar reasons in both. The owlbears in each entry are both misunderstood. In [B][I]Rage[/I][/B], it is presumed that the owlbears are villains, when in fact they are the plucky good-guys. In [B][I]Songport[/I][/B], it is thought that the owlbear killed a bear, when in fact it is the bear. So far, so good, but… in each case the owlbear is not really an owlbear. In the first it’s a human under an illusion, and in the second, it’s a transmuted bear. So, again, a draw. [B]Copper Kettle[/B], likewise, has similar issues in both offerings. In [B][I]Rage[/I][/B], the cauldron used to make the rad shades is copper, and a macguffin used to drive the character’s actions. In [B][I]Songport [/I][/B]it is the magical pitcher used to cleanse water. In neither case do I think it particularly important that the kettle be copper. And in neither case do I think it necessary that it be a kettle. So both are in my opinion weak uses. [I][Spoiler=”Postscript Judge’s note”][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][B]Edited to add[/B]: Having finished my own judgment and reading Radiating Gnome’s, I want to interject a disagreement with my esteemed colleague on the use of cauldron and kettle. A kettle being any vessel able to boil water in, a cauldron is rightly defined as a kind of kettle. I don’t find Rage’s use here to be a cheat; I will note as a counterpoint that I think its actually Songport which plays loose with kettle, as I read Songport’s copper vessel as being more of a pitcher. Still, other than that I think Radiating Gnome and I had very similar takes on each ingredient.[/COLOR] [/spoiler][/I] In [B]Sword of Echoing Sin[/B], I think [B][I]Songport [/I][/B]has the definite better use, even though I think its not all that creative of a use, as its just taking the words of the ingredient and applying them in a very literal way and smashing it into the story. But the sword which fills the PCs in on the backstory is a sword, and it does bring up the mistakes of the past. On the other hand, the sword in [B][I]Rage [/I][/B]is not a sword, it’s a missile, and though it does reflect on past errors (nuclear annihilation), it seems a bit of a stretch for the ingredient use. I’m going to actually, in [B]uncaring bears[/B], give the nod to [B][I]Rage[/I][/B]. The uncaring bears in [B][I]Songport [/I][/B]are just that, bears that don’t care, I’m not sure that makes them all that different from any other bear, if you were to ask your typical bear about elections, the speed limit, or the price of butter in Mongolia. Bears just don't care about the questions that plague us. So really, the uncaring bears in [B][I]Songport [/I][/B]are just typical bears. On the other hand, the bears in [B][I]Rage [/I][/B]are the true villains, without pity for the lives they manipulate and ruin. My main beef with [B][I]Rage’s [/I][/B]bears is I am not sure why they have to be bears, other than the ingredient called for it. They could just as easily been the descendants of house-cats, bees, or three-toed sloths. But I still give this one ingredient to [B][I]Rage [/I][/B]as being better used. Which brings me then to the[B] Silent Choir[/B]. In both cases I think there are problems with the ingredient use. The silent choir of [B][I]Rage[/I][/B], the howling dogs which attack with a frequency too high to hear, are not really silent, nor are they strictly speaking a choir. On the other hand, the silent banshees of [B][I]Songport[/I][/B], are perhaps a choir, but the goal is to make them not be silent. In both cases I see and understand the use, but I’m not really moved by either ingredient. So all that being said, I find that on the whole, Songport definitely has the lead in ingredient use. The ingredients in Rage take the words and seem intent on twisting them in some way so as to make them mean something unique. In one case, the scary stickers, I think this works. Mostly though, I think it just makes the use weak, and one one case for sure, the Sword, I am tempted to award no points at all for the ingredient. On the other hand, Songport seems to read each ingredient as literally as possible, and while this makes the story presented as a whole feel less organic and more like a motley of disconnected ingredients, it does mean that each ingredient gets used in a respectable way. But this brings me to the fact that I personally like Rage much better as an adventure. I will fully confess that I frequently am less than completely enamored with the attempt to make each Iron DM entry a stand-alone indy game. I think, typically, it hurts the entries. In this one case though, I think Snarf really pulls it off and presents a working adventure, with its own set of internal mechanics that do a good job of presenting the story. This is one I would like to actually play; and I think as well the story mostly works. As far as an adventure goes, I think Rage has the clear advantage. Songport feels all over the place to me, with fungal invasion, warring druids, a city-state with a past. I think if I ran Songport, my players would end up confused at some point, and losing track of what it is they are supposed to be doing. This is not to say I think the adventure to be without merit; but I definitely think it needs tightened up, focused better, and presented more cleanly. So personally, I like Rage better. Songport has the better technical use of the Ingredients. Which one wins? [spoiler=”Judgment”] In this case, by the very narrowest of margins, I am going to have to go with [I]Everyone has gone to the Ragetur[/I], and my vote is for Snarf Zagyg to advance. I see that once more Radiating Gnome and I are split on this ([I]though mostly, I observe, in agreement about the general merits of each[/I]), and so once more it falls to Gradine to resolve the tie. [B][U]Everyone has gone to the Rageture[/U] (Rage) Follows Rules 6 Ingredient Use[/B] [INDENT]Scary Stickers 2[/INDENT] [INDENT]City in a Bottle 1[/INDENT] [INDENT]Misunderstood Owlbear 1.5[/INDENT] [INDENT]Copper Kettle 1[/INDENT] [INDENT]Sword of Echoing Sin .5[/INDENT] [INDENT]Uncaring Bears 1.5[/INDENT] [INDENT]Silent Choir 1 [B](total 8.5/14)[/B][/INDENT] [B]Useability 5 Appeal 5 [U]TOTAL SCORE 24.5/32 The Dooms of Songport [/U](Songport) Follows Rules 6 Ingredients[/B] Scary Stickers 2 City in a Bottle 2 Misunderstood Owlbear 1.5 Copper Kettle 1 Sword of Echoing Sin 1.5 Uncaring Bears 1 Silent Choir 1 [B](total 10/14) Useability 4 Appeal 4 TOTAL SCORE 24/32[/B][/spoiler][B][/B] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
IRON DM 2023 Tournament Thread
Top