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Is a more OD&D feel game the natural evolutionary endpoint? Is OD&D actually AD&D?
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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4740779" data-attributes="member: 40961"><p>I don't know. On one hand, I like rules lite games run by a DM I trust.</p><p> </p><p>On the other hand, I get zero thrill from dice tossing. Zero. I experience no gambler's thrill. On the Euro/Ameritrash spectrum, I'm fully on the Euro side. (Bonus points to those who know what that means.) There has to be something else in a fight scene besides the thrill of throwing a die and seeing the results, or else I'm bored. </p><p> </p><p>That something else doesn't have to be a miniatures based tactical maneuvering game like 4e (though that does work, and it works well), it could be something plot related. As an example, Paranoia works because even during the drab dice tossing gameplay, I'm calculating how to best screw over everyone else at the table. Older school D&D games can accomplish that for me, but its highly DM dependant. The system doesn't do it for me, and I find myself wishing that combat would end so I could get back to the game.</p><p> </p><p>Additionally, I am something of a <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb" target="_blank">culture alien</a> when it comes to old school D&D's influences. I know the style of books that were written by Vance, Howard, Leiber and company, I've even read a little of it, but it just isn't my thing. I read voraciously. Absolutely voraciously. A book a night for a significant portion of my life. But the books that I read simply aren't sword and sorcery fantasy. They're modern. New Weird. Romantic Fantasy. High Fantasy. Contemporary Fantasy. Steampunk. Faery Tale Fantasy. Even Dark Fantasy, probably the closest modern cognate to the sword and sorcery genre.</p><p> </p><p>Just not sword and sorcery, and rarely heroic fantasy (you know, farm boy + dark lord). I have trouble not viewing them as the sort of thing that people read back in the dark ages before there were better books to read. Honorable ancestors of my favorites, but ancestors.</p><p> </p><p>So the archetypal heroes of my imagination are Tarma and the Whispersmith and the Black Dow and Grannie Weatherwax and Carnival and Sable Keech and Razor Eddie and Jack Silk and more. Which means that even if I wanted to go out and get a rules lite game, I wouldn't necessarily go for an OD&D feel. I'd want a rules lite game that had a chance of modeling the things I'm looking for, and allowing the character types I enjoy. More modern editions of D&D aren't rules lite, but they do accomplish that goal.</p><p> </p><p>So... anyways, the point of this diatribe was simply that OD&D isn't just a point on the rules heavy rules lite spectrum, its also a cultural artifact of a specific time and place in the history of the fantasy genre. For those who didn't live through that time period, there's really no guarantee that they'll ever want more than a small portion of the OD&D "style."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4740779, member: 40961"] I don't know. On one hand, I like rules lite games run by a DM I trust. On the other hand, I get zero thrill from dice tossing. Zero. I experience no gambler's thrill. On the Euro/Ameritrash spectrum, I'm fully on the Euro side. (Bonus points to those who know what that means.) There has to be something else in a fight scene besides the thrill of throwing a die and seeing the results, or else I'm bored. That something else doesn't have to be a miniatures based tactical maneuvering game like 4e (though that does work, and it works well), it could be something plot related. As an example, Paranoia works because even during the drab dice tossing gameplay, I'm calculating how to best screw over everyone else at the table. Older school D&D games can accomplish that for me, but its highly DM dependant. The system doesn't do it for me, and I find myself wishing that combat would end so I could get back to the game. Additionally, I am something of a [URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb"]culture alien[/URL] when it comes to old school D&D's influences. I know the style of books that were written by Vance, Howard, Leiber and company, I've even read a little of it, but it just isn't my thing. I read voraciously. Absolutely voraciously. A book a night for a significant portion of my life. But the books that I read simply aren't sword and sorcery fantasy. They're modern. New Weird. Romantic Fantasy. High Fantasy. Contemporary Fantasy. Steampunk. Faery Tale Fantasy. Even Dark Fantasy, probably the closest modern cognate to the sword and sorcery genre. Just not sword and sorcery, and rarely heroic fantasy (you know, farm boy + dark lord). I have trouble not viewing them as the sort of thing that people read back in the dark ages before there were better books to read. Honorable ancestors of my favorites, but ancestors. So the archetypal heroes of my imagination are Tarma and the Whispersmith and the Black Dow and Grannie Weatherwax and Carnival and Sable Keech and Razor Eddie and Jack Silk and more. Which means that even if I wanted to go out and get a rules lite game, I wouldn't necessarily go for an OD&D feel. I'd want a rules lite game that had a chance of modeling the things I'm looking for, and allowing the character types I enjoy. More modern editions of D&D aren't rules lite, but they do accomplish that goal. So... anyways, the point of this diatribe was simply that OD&D isn't just a point on the rules heavy rules lite spectrum, its also a cultural artifact of a specific time and place in the history of the fantasy genre. For those who didn't live through that time period, there's really no guarantee that they'll ever want more than a small portion of the OD&D "style." [/QUOTE]
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Is a more OD&D feel game the natural evolutionary endpoint? Is OD&D actually AD&D?
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