Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is D&D too complicated?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 1578115" data-attributes="member: 812"><p>Some good points, and I agree that fully statting out an NPC under 3E sure FEELS like more work. I'm not sure that it is, but it feels that way. I think part of it is I used to say, "Ogre Mage, hurray" and basically be done with it.</p><p></p><p>Now it's "Ogre Mage, hm, what if I give him a few levels of barbarian? Oh, and so then what do his stats become while raging? Let me leaf throug Oriental Adventures and see if there's some cool feats, hey, Ki Shout, that sounds like fun..."</p><p></p><p>I mean, if you're winging it, you're winging it, right? It doesn't make much sense to say, "Winging it is harder in 3E" if you think when winging it you need to stick to the rules. Or maybe people are using different definitions of "winging it" than I am.</p><p></p><p>What I like about 3E is how it takes all the stuff I used to do anyway (like francisca says) and provides me with rules for how to do it and keep some idea as to how tough I'm making my challenges, so I can provide appropriate encounters for my party.</p><p></p><p>That in no way makes me feel shackled or forces me to use those rules. But it's nice to have them. You know. For when I have the time.</p><p></p><p>The ultimate expression of that is the "Monsters Handbook" from, um FFG, I think. It's one of my favourite books, but essentially it's all about "how do you make sneaky orcs or tougher kobolds?" It discusses the impact of various changes and provides you with an excellent set of guidelines for modifying or creating monsters.</p><p></p><p>None of which says I can't just make up any old thing I feel like and throw THAT at my party. Because I can, and heck, I do it all the time (yeah, yeah).</p><p></p><p>I don't have much sympathy for people who claim "There's too many rules, I can't do what I want." Ignore the rules you don't like.</p><p></p><p>Now, as for the originating post, is D&D's complexity inhibiting market penetration? I wonder.</p><p></p><p>Part of the ATTRACTION of D&D (and RPG's in general) is that they're hard to learn. People like being challenged, and I know for a fact that if the rules of D&D had been as simple as, say, Go Fish, I wouldn't have given it a second glance. That said, there's probably a sweet spot where challenge-seekers and rules-averse players converge -- and I suspect the Player's Handbook is very near to that spot.</p><p></p><p>If it weren't there would be some other product there making huge sales. There's certainly no shortage of products out there at varying levels of complexity. I agree with the poster who said that very few people are going to buy the game without encouragement, regardless of its perceived complexity. It's too strange a concept to explain in a single eye-catching display for impulse buying -- you have to be brought to it somehow. I read a magazine article and went out and bought the game when I was like eleven and taught myself to play but I was already an SF&F fan so I was pretty well-prepped for it.</p><p></p><p>I'm not convinced that a simpler game would bring in more players. I don't think it's the complexity of the rules that keeps people out -- it's the complexity of the concept.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="barsoomcore, post: 1578115, member: 812"] Some good points, and I agree that fully statting out an NPC under 3E sure FEELS like more work. I'm not sure that it is, but it feels that way. I think part of it is I used to say, "Ogre Mage, hurray" and basically be done with it. Now it's "Ogre Mage, hm, what if I give him a few levels of barbarian? Oh, and so then what do his stats become while raging? Let me leaf throug Oriental Adventures and see if there's some cool feats, hey, Ki Shout, that sounds like fun..." I mean, if you're winging it, you're winging it, right? It doesn't make much sense to say, "Winging it is harder in 3E" if you think when winging it you need to stick to the rules. Or maybe people are using different definitions of "winging it" than I am. What I like about 3E is how it takes all the stuff I used to do anyway (like francisca says) and provides me with rules for how to do it and keep some idea as to how tough I'm making my challenges, so I can provide appropriate encounters for my party. That in no way makes me feel shackled or forces me to use those rules. But it's nice to have them. You know. For when I have the time. The ultimate expression of that is the "Monsters Handbook" from, um FFG, I think. It's one of my favourite books, but essentially it's all about "how do you make sneaky orcs or tougher kobolds?" It discusses the impact of various changes and provides you with an excellent set of guidelines for modifying or creating monsters. None of which says I can't just make up any old thing I feel like and throw THAT at my party. Because I can, and heck, I do it all the time (yeah, yeah). I don't have much sympathy for people who claim "There's too many rules, I can't do what I want." Ignore the rules you don't like. Now, as for the originating post, is D&D's complexity inhibiting market penetration? I wonder. Part of the ATTRACTION of D&D (and RPG's in general) is that they're hard to learn. People like being challenged, and I know for a fact that if the rules of D&D had been as simple as, say, Go Fish, I wouldn't have given it a second glance. That said, there's probably a sweet spot where challenge-seekers and rules-averse players converge -- and I suspect the Player's Handbook is very near to that spot. If it weren't there would be some other product there making huge sales. There's certainly no shortage of products out there at varying levels of complexity. I agree with the poster who said that very few people are going to buy the game without encouragement, regardless of its perceived complexity. It's too strange a concept to explain in a single eye-catching display for impulse buying -- you have to be brought to it somehow. I read a magazine article and went out and bought the game when I was like eleven and taught myself to play but I was already an SF&F fan so I was pretty well-prepped for it. I'm not convinced that a simpler game would bring in more players. I don't think it's the complexity of the rules that keeps people out -- it's the complexity of the concept. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is D&D too complicated?
Top