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Is Dread Necromancer a good choice for an Eldritch Theurge?
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<blockquote data-quote="Falling Icicle" data-source="post: 3655076" data-attributes="member: 17077"><p>Thanks for all of the replies. In all honesty, I don't really find the sorcerer option very appealing. Even the limited spell list of a dread necromancer is more than double the number of spells a sorcerer can know. And as I recall, a battle sorcerer is even more limited in this regard. As a dread necromancer you have the choices made for you, but I don't see that as being much of a problem, personally. </p><p></p><p>A good point was made about the dread necromancer's lack of versatility, but I do see how these two classes could be a good compliment to each other. Dread Necromancers rely on alot of touch spells, and greatreach blast would greatly expand their combat options. They also have few combat options against constructs and the like, and eldritch blast helps there as well. The warlock's invocations can also help fill in the gaps in the dread necromancer's spell selection, providing things like darkvision, see invisibility, flight, planar travel, different types of damage (fire, acid, etc), and so on.</p><p></p><p>Another thing I'm curious about, does an eldritch theurge get to add spells every 4 levels to his spell list for his dread necromancer spells, or is advanced learning considered a class feature that is not included in spellcasting progression? Losing advanced learning would definately be a big hit.</p><p></p><p>I've been compiling a list of pros and cons for the dread necromancer to help me decide if I want to take that as my arcane class.</p><p></p><p>Pros:</p><p></p><p>- Can wear light armor without arcane spell failure.</p><p>- Uses charisma as primary stat, which warlocks also use.</p><p>- Casts spells spontaneously, without preparation, with as many spells per day as a sorcerer but more than twice the number of spells known. Also has access to many nasty touch spells like harm and slay living that sorcerers and wizards can't learn. These spells would be great to use with greatreach blast. Other spells from the cleric list, such as speak with dead, hide from undead, etc offer some cool options not normally available to other arcanists.</p><p>- Has charnel touch, a negative energy touch attack usable at will. With the tomb-tainted soul feat, I can have infinite self-healing. I could also harm myself to heal. While wizards can also make use of this feat, they lack the really powerful negative energy spells that dread necromancers get, like harm.</p><p>- Has rebuke undead, although this feature won't advance with eldritch theurge levels, making it much less useful. It could still open some interesting options with divine metamagic, I suppose.</p><p>- The +2 bonus against many debilitating effects is a pretty nice boon. The 2 dr/bludgeoning and magic could also come in handy if my attackers are armed with cold iron weapons.</p><p></p><p>Cons:</p><p></p><p>- Have to have 4 levels in it to qualify for eldritch theurge, putting me a level behind in progression. Also gains access to higher level spells a level later than wizards do.</p><p>- Has a set spell list, narrowly focused on necromantic type effects. Has little versatility in spell selection. The spell list also has inflict spells as its primary offensive option, which are really crappy compared to sorcerer/wizard damaging spells of the same level. Still, when used with greatreach blast, these spells could be more viable. The spell list also contains few area effect spells, making spellblast less useful.</p><p>- Doesn't progress in many of its class features, such as rebuke undead, damage reduction, etc. I'm not sure if this is really that much of a drawback, however, since wizards and sorcerers don't get these class features either, and eldritch theurge offers damage reduction of its own. If I so chose, I could just become a lich and get most of the class feature a dread necromancer gets in 20 levels. </p><p>- Also, since rebuke undead does not improve with eldritch theurge levels, the create undead and create greater undead spells are much less useful since they are not automatically under the caster's control when created. I'd have to resort to the command undead spell to put these minions in their place. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> </p><p></p><p>This is all I have been able to think of so far. Let me know what you think and if you have any other pros or cons to add. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Falling Icicle, post: 3655076, member: 17077"] Thanks for all of the replies. In all honesty, I don't really find the sorcerer option very appealing. Even the limited spell list of a dread necromancer is more than double the number of spells a sorcerer can know. And as I recall, a battle sorcerer is even more limited in this regard. As a dread necromancer you have the choices made for you, but I don't see that as being much of a problem, personally. A good point was made about the dread necromancer's lack of versatility, but I do see how these two classes could be a good compliment to each other. Dread Necromancers rely on alot of touch spells, and greatreach blast would greatly expand their combat options. They also have few combat options against constructs and the like, and eldritch blast helps there as well. The warlock's invocations can also help fill in the gaps in the dread necromancer's spell selection, providing things like darkvision, see invisibility, flight, planar travel, different types of damage (fire, acid, etc), and so on. Another thing I'm curious about, does an eldritch theurge get to add spells every 4 levels to his spell list for his dread necromancer spells, or is advanced learning considered a class feature that is not included in spellcasting progression? Losing advanced learning would definately be a big hit. I've been compiling a list of pros and cons for the dread necromancer to help me decide if I want to take that as my arcane class. Pros: - Can wear light armor without arcane spell failure. - Uses charisma as primary stat, which warlocks also use. - Casts spells spontaneously, without preparation, with as many spells per day as a sorcerer but more than twice the number of spells known. Also has access to many nasty touch spells like harm and slay living that sorcerers and wizards can't learn. These spells would be great to use with greatreach blast. Other spells from the cleric list, such as speak with dead, hide from undead, etc offer some cool options not normally available to other arcanists. - Has charnel touch, a negative energy touch attack usable at will. With the tomb-tainted soul feat, I can have infinite self-healing. I could also harm myself to heal. While wizards can also make use of this feat, they lack the really powerful negative energy spells that dread necromancers get, like harm. - Has rebuke undead, although this feature won't advance with eldritch theurge levels, making it much less useful. It could still open some interesting options with divine metamagic, I suppose. - The +2 bonus against many debilitating effects is a pretty nice boon. The 2 dr/bludgeoning and magic could also come in handy if my attackers are armed with cold iron weapons. Cons: - Have to have 4 levels in it to qualify for eldritch theurge, putting me a level behind in progression. Also gains access to higher level spells a level later than wizards do. - Has a set spell list, narrowly focused on necromantic type effects. Has little versatility in spell selection. The spell list also has inflict spells as its primary offensive option, which are really crappy compared to sorcerer/wizard damaging spells of the same level. Still, when used with greatreach blast, these spells could be more viable. The spell list also contains few area effect spells, making spellblast less useful. - Doesn't progress in many of its class features, such as rebuke undead, damage reduction, etc. I'm not sure if this is really that much of a drawback, however, since wizards and sorcerers don't get these class features either, and eldritch theurge offers damage reduction of its own. If I so chose, I could just become a lich and get most of the class feature a dread necromancer gets in 20 levels. - Also, since rebuke undead does not improve with eldritch theurge levels, the create undead and create greater undead spells are much less useful since they are not automatically under the caster's control when created. I'd have to resort to the command undead spell to put these minions in their place. :p This is all I have been able to think of so far. Let me know what you think and if you have any other pros or cons to add. ;) [/QUOTE]
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