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Is it fun to plan a heist?
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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 9334627" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Need? No. Want, most definitely depending on what you are running.</p><p></p><p>You can play an RPG without any rules whatsoever. It requires absolute trust in the GM, and put a heavy load on them to be fair and consistant, especially over time.</p><p></p><p>Rules help make the game (as in RP<strong>G</strong>) better. They reduce the load on the GM. They present a shared understanding between everyone at the table, gets them on the same page.</p><p></p><p>Now, too many rules can be as bad as too few. And if you're going to do a scenario that involves heavy planning only a few times in a campaign then having rules or a subsystem for it it too heavy.</p><p></p><p>But if planning is going to be a more common occurrence, then yes, having mechanical support for it is better than not.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As already explained, the right amount of rules help shared understanding and the game.</p><p></p><p>Plus, this view is incorrect. One of the points being talked about is a flashback mechanism. Human beings are <em>much</em> better at hindsight ("we need to deal with this problem we now know about") than foresight ("we need to come up with all potential risks, assign chance of happening and cost of failure, and work out mitigation plans if it's worth it"). I've done the latter professionally. And the former.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, truism is a truism. I'm fine with, for example, the tool of a flashback mechanic being used anywhere. Haggling with a merchant, have a flashback where you found out the prices from his competitors. If tools are limited to just planning or not isn't an important distinction.</p><p></p><p>I know you meant this the other way, but a flashback mechanic has such session time efficiency results, meaning you can pack more into the same amount of wall clock time, that a "given enough tools" basically requires it for a Heist-moderate game to be "enough tools".</p><p></p><p></p><p>No more than hit points. In real life, someone hit by a giant's axe isn't springing around and fighting at full potential. But in the heroic fantasy genre they are. HPs give an ablative ability to ignore getting dropped by attacks to better emulate the genre -- until it's too many and you drop anyway. Flashbacks do the same thing, a limited resource that lets you work around some complications in a heist to better emulate the genre. To be honest, a lot less than HPs because you don't also have to spend HPs on other things.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As mentioned above, they do solve the exact same issue as HPs. Spending a currency to allow your character to do things they couldn't otherwise is a very well accepted part of every RPG. It's not a defendable argument that it's not acceptable since we see for a fact in game after game that sort of thing is acceptable.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't follow the logic there.</p><p></p><p>First, there is a cost in the currency of Stress for all but the most mundane, which is something you use both to fuel other cool things, help others, resist dying and imparements - it is meaningful to spend it. And the cost goes up for more elaborate flashbacks needed. And it's not like D&D's long rest, you will most likely not have recovered all of your stress by the next heist so it will have a lasting impact.</p><p></p><p>Second, because it's a cost, it's important to the story when you choose to use it or not, so it's never superflous, it's at worst an opportunity cost.</p><p></p><p>Third, it's can't change anything that's hit the table. Want to have known about the pat-down to the poker game and hidden your weapons? Sure. But once your weapons are found that can't be reversed by a flashback. It's still a tool for planning, it's just one you can use in the short term. It can't do anything for things that have happened.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 9334627, member: 20564"] Need? No. Want, most definitely depending on what you are running. You can play an RPG without any rules whatsoever. It requires absolute trust in the GM, and put a heavy load on them to be fair and consistant, especially over time. Rules help make the game (as in RP[B]G[/B]) better. They reduce the load on the GM. They present a shared understanding between everyone at the table, gets them on the same page. Now, too many rules can be as bad as too few. And if you're going to do a scenario that involves heavy planning only a few times in a campaign then having rules or a subsystem for it it too heavy. But if planning is going to be a more common occurrence, then yes, having mechanical support for it is better than not. As already explained, the right amount of rules help shared understanding and the game. Plus, this view is incorrect. One of the points being talked about is a flashback mechanism. Human beings are [I]much[/I] better at hindsight ("we need to deal with this problem we now know about") than foresight ("we need to come up with all potential risks, assign chance of happening and cost of failure, and work out mitigation plans if it's worth it"). I've done the latter professionally. And the former. Sure, truism is a truism. I'm fine with, for example, the tool of a flashback mechanic being used anywhere. Haggling with a merchant, have a flashback where you found out the prices from his competitors. If tools are limited to just planning or not isn't an important distinction. I know you meant this the other way, but a flashback mechanic has such session time efficiency results, meaning you can pack more into the same amount of wall clock time, that a "given enough tools" basically requires it for a Heist-moderate game to be "enough tools". No more than hit points. In real life, someone hit by a giant's axe isn't springing around and fighting at full potential. But in the heroic fantasy genre they are. HPs give an ablative ability to ignore getting dropped by attacks to better emulate the genre -- until it's too many and you drop anyway. Flashbacks do the same thing, a limited resource that lets you work around some complications in a heist to better emulate the genre. To be honest, a lot less than HPs because you don't also have to spend HPs on other things. As mentioned above, they do solve the exact same issue as HPs. Spending a currency to allow your character to do things they couldn't otherwise is a very well accepted part of every RPG. It's not a defendable argument that it's not acceptable since we see for a fact in game after game that sort of thing is acceptable. I don't follow the logic there. First, there is a cost in the currency of Stress for all but the most mundane, which is something you use both to fuel other cool things, help others, resist dying and imparements - it is meaningful to spend it. And the cost goes up for more elaborate flashbacks needed. And it's not like D&D's long rest, you will most likely not have recovered all of your stress by the next heist so it will have a lasting impact. Second, because it's a cost, it's important to the story when you choose to use it or not, so it's never superflous, it's at worst an opportunity cost. Third, it's can't change anything that's hit the table. Want to have known about the pat-down to the poker game and hidden your weapons? Sure. But once your weapons are found that can't be reversed by a flashback. It's still a tool for planning, it's just one you can use in the short term. It can't do anything for things that have happened. [/QUOTE]
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