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Is It Time for PF2 "Essentials"?
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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8204208" data-attributes="member: 6778210"><p>In fairness, no elements as to why it's a "tactical wargame with role-playing elements" are ever given in that post beyond "NPCs aren't built like PCs", which I find to be absurd. My comment's focus from when Starfox described it previously in another thread where I made a similar point and they responded. Here's the quote:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the first idea (That combat rules are emphasized) is meaningless since most d20 games emphasize combat: they are regularly the biggest parts of the book, and most class features revolve around them. PF2 doesn't emphasize a battlemap anymore than 5E does, and even 4E can be played TotM if you just convert squares into feet. Every edition of D&D basically works better with a battle map because every edition of D&D uses precise distances when it comes to weapon reach, range, threat range, blasts, etc. If you want to tell me that something is less "boardgamey", you don't tell me to look at another d20 game, you should be telling me to look at something like FFG Star Wars, where distance is abstracted and exact measurements are not given.</p><p></p><p>But the second half is what I'm talking about: when people use the term "roll-play", it's about having systems of arbitration built into the game, rather than relying on GM fiat to decide things. PF2 has more rules for social encounters, which to me says that they are trying to encourage people to actually do things with social skills rather than having to rely on whatever their GM decides to allow them to do that day. I mean, to use the same system again, FFG Star Wars has more rules for social encounter adjudication than most D&D games, but I'd say that it encourages those aspects much more within the game compared to combat. Having more ways that the system interacts with something doesn't decrease one's ability to roleplay within it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="👏" title="Clapping hands :clap:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44f.png" data-shortname=":clap:" /></p><p></p><p>No, I would largely agree with your analysis. I suppose I wasn't clear on what I meant because I was basically continuing an argument from a month ago in a different thread. My bad for the confusion. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 8204208, member: 6778210"] In fairness, no elements as to why it's a "tactical wargame with role-playing elements" are ever given in that post beyond "NPCs aren't built like PCs", which I find to be absurd. My comment's focus from when Starfox described it previously in another thread where I made a similar point and they responded. Here's the quote: I think the first idea (That combat rules are emphasized) is meaningless since most d20 games emphasize combat: they are regularly the biggest parts of the book, and most class features revolve around them. PF2 doesn't emphasize a battlemap anymore than 5E does, and even 4E can be played TotM if you just convert squares into feet. Every edition of D&D basically works better with a battle map because every edition of D&D uses precise distances when it comes to weapon reach, range, threat range, blasts, etc. If you want to tell me that something is less "boardgamey", you don't tell me to look at another d20 game, you should be telling me to look at something like FFG Star Wars, where distance is abstracted and exact measurements are not given. But the second half is what I'm talking about: when people use the term "roll-play", it's about having systems of arbitration built into the game, rather than relying on GM fiat to decide things. PF2 has more rules for social encounters, which to me says that they are trying to encourage people to actually do things with social skills rather than having to rely on whatever their GM decides to allow them to do that day. I mean, to use the same system again, FFG Star Wars has more rules for social encounter adjudication than most D&D games, but I'd say that it encourages those aspects much more within the game compared to combat. Having more ways that the system interacts with something doesn't decrease one's ability to roleplay within it. 👏 No, I would largely agree with your analysis. I suppose I wasn't clear on what I meant because I was basically continuing an argument from a month ago in a different thread. My bad for the confusion. :) [/QUOTE]
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