Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7606106" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Not at all. </p><p></p><p> [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] is the person who introduced <em>clarity</em> as a desideratum. My point was that <em>clarity</em> is not really connected to <em>literary quality</em>, and pointed to instructions as an example.</p><p></p><p>If you agree that instructions don't typically display literary quality, then I think you should agree that - to the extent that clarity matters in RPGing - then that doesn't really bear on the issues raised in the OP.</p><p></p><p>The comparisons that I have made to the sort of communication that takes place in RPGing are other forms of more-or-less intimate communications where artifice and literary quality are not pre-eminent concerns, such as conversation and letters. These don't evoke emotions <em>because of their literary qualities</em>. They invoke emotions <em>because they pertain to things the interlocutor cares about</em>. In conversations and letters, the caring is about <em>actual things that matter to the interlocutor</em>. In RPGing, the caring is the result of <em>the player wanting to play his/her PC</em> - because that's the point of the game - and <em>feeling the invitation to do so</em> in the situation the GM presents.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=85555]Bedrockgames[/MENTION] describes this as <em>immersion</em> in the character and situation. I haven't myself used this term, because it brings baggage with it that I don't feel is helpful for my purposes. When I want a phrase to describe what is going on here, I tend to refer to "inhabitation" of the PC. But regardless of the particular terminology used, I hope the general notion is clear enough.</p><p></p><p>This is why I keep coming back to action declaration and protagonism.</p><p></p><p>Who disagrees with that? (Subject to presently irrelevant exceptions - I don't think a dungeon crawl like ToH or even B2 is really supposed to evoke emotions, any more than a typical wargame is - but I don't think either of us has that in mind as the paradigm we're talking about.)</p><p></p><p>The OP is about <em>the manner whereby this evoking of emotions occurs</em>.</p><p></p><p>What excites me about a module - as a GM - is not the quality of its writing but the power of the situation it presents. Four examples, each a module, or a bit of a module, that has excited my interest enough for me to use it (spoilers, but mostly for very old adventures):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">* The Haunted Manse (?), a mini-module in Best of White Dwarf Scenarios vol 2, put together by Albie Fiore using monsters submitted by readers for the Fiend Factory column. I remember nothing about the prose, and the layout is typical of an early-80s magazine. But the idea of a son returned home with 12 dwarven retainers, who is in fact a shapechanged demon with 12 dream demon companions, has always caught my imagination.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">* The evil priest in B2. B2 has terrible prose and layout. But the idea of an evil priest - whom I've always treated as part of the cult in the caves - who befriends the PCs and then tries to bring them into evil ways or sacrifice them to evil has always been compelling to me. It emphasises the whole tone of the Keep, that there are borderlands in which chaos can seep into and undermine ordinary civilised life.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">* The old man in Death Frost Doom, who can tell the name of a dead person by touching them. I first read this module in its original form (before Zak S prettied it up). The layout is bare bones and the prose is nothing special. But this idea really grabbed me, and a version of this NPC was at the centre of one particular situation in my 4e game.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">* Robin Laws Demon of the Red Grove scenario in his HeroWars Narrator's Book. I thought the ideas in this scenario - which begins with an apple grove that is not bearing fruit because it's haunted - were imaginative and engaging. <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?355600-Session-report-(Apect-of)-Vecna-defeated-demon-bargained-with" target="_blank">I adapted it to Epic Tier 4e play</a>, setting it in the Feywild.</p><p></p><p>It's a scenario's promise for play that excites me as a GM.</p><p></p><p>That's not remotely compelling. It has no situation at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7606106, member: 42582"] Not at all. [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] is the person who introduced [I]clarity[/I] as a desideratum. My point was that [I]clarity[/I] is not really connected to [I]literary quality[/I], and pointed to instructions as an example. If you agree that instructions don't typically display literary quality, then I think you should agree that - to the extent that clarity matters in RPGing - then that doesn't really bear on the issues raised in the OP. The comparisons that I have made to the sort of communication that takes place in RPGing are other forms of more-or-less intimate communications where artifice and literary quality are not pre-eminent concerns, such as conversation and letters. These don't evoke emotions [I]because of their literary qualities[/I]. They invoke emotions [I]because they pertain to things the interlocutor cares about[/I]. In conversations and letters, the caring is about [I]actual things that matter to the interlocutor[/I]. In RPGing, the caring is the result of [I]the player wanting to play his/her PC[/I] - because that's the point of the game - and [I]feeling the invitation to do so[/I] in the situation the GM presents. [MENTION=85555]Bedrockgames[/MENTION] describes this as [I]immersion[/I] in the character and situation. I haven't myself used this term, because it brings baggage with it that I don't feel is helpful for my purposes. When I want a phrase to describe what is going on here, I tend to refer to "inhabitation" of the PC. But regardless of the particular terminology used, I hope the general notion is clear enough. This is why I keep coming back to action declaration and protagonism. Who disagrees with that? (Subject to presently irrelevant exceptions - I don't think a dungeon crawl like ToH or even B2 is really supposed to evoke emotions, any more than a typical wargame is - but I don't think either of us has that in mind as the paradigm we're talking about.) The OP is about [I]the manner whereby this evoking of emotions occurs[/I]. What excites me about a module - as a GM - is not the quality of its writing but the power of the situation it presents. Four examples, each a module, or a bit of a module, that has excited my interest enough for me to use it (spoilers, but mostly for very old adventures): [indent]* The Haunted Manse (?), a mini-module in Best of White Dwarf Scenarios vol 2, put together by Albie Fiore using monsters submitted by readers for the Fiend Factory column. I remember nothing about the prose, and the layout is typical of an early-80s magazine. But the idea of a son returned home with 12 dwarven retainers, who is in fact a shapechanged demon with 12 dream demon companions, has always caught my imagination. * The evil priest in B2. B2 has terrible prose and layout. But the idea of an evil priest - whom I've always treated as part of the cult in the caves - who befriends the PCs and then tries to bring them into evil ways or sacrifice them to evil has always been compelling to me. It emphasises the whole tone of the Keep, that there are borderlands in which chaos can seep into and undermine ordinary civilised life. * The old man in Death Frost Doom, who can tell the name of a dead person by touching them. I first read this module in its original form (before Zak S prettied it up). The layout is bare bones and the prose is nothing special. But this idea really grabbed me, and a version of this NPC was at the centre of one particular situation in my 4e game. * Robin Laws Demon of the Red Grove scenario in his HeroWars Narrator's Book. I thought the ideas in this scenario - which begins with an apple grove that is not bearing fruit because it's haunted - were imaginative and engaging. [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?355600-Session-report-(Apect-of)-Vecna-defeated-demon-bargained-with]I adapted it to Epic Tier 4e play[/url], setting it in the Feywild.[/indent] It's a scenario's promise for play that excites me as a GM. That's not remotely compelling. It has no situation at all. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
Top