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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3051476" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Not in this case, no. I don't think that the OP is in league with the sun being in a 10 x 10 room. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>I note that the party thought that there was a trap, they had cleared the dungeon but did not take time to Take 10 or Take 20 (within the wording of the OP), they then simply pulled the lever, and they seemed to believe that there was still reasonable grounds to believe that a trap was there (which is why the monk pulled the lever).</p><p></p><p>We don't know what grounds there were to believe that there was a trap there, but I and others have written out painstaking lines of reasoning that would apply to any situation where a trap was at all likely.</p><p></p><p>The objection to this trap, therefore, seems to lie on:</p><p></p><p>(1) A Search check didn't find it. This is not sufficient reason in my book for a trap to be unfair.</p><p></p><p>(2) It required a very high save. Again, this is not sufficient reason in my book for a trap to be unfair.</p><p></p><p>and</p><p></p><p>(3) Failure to make that save was lethal.</p><p></p><p>The combination of (2) and (3) could certainly contribute to a trap being unfair if there was reason to believe that a party had no way to discern that a trap was probably there (not so in this case) and it was demonstrable that reasonable prudence could not locate/disarm the trap (again, not so in this case).</p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3051476, member: 18280"] Not in this case, no. I don't think that the OP is in league with the sun being in a 10 x 10 room. ;) I note that the party thought that there was a trap, they had cleared the dungeon but did not take time to Take 10 or Take 20 (within the wording of the OP), they then simply pulled the lever, and they seemed to believe that there was still reasonable grounds to believe that a trap was there (which is why the monk pulled the lever). We don't know what grounds there were to believe that there was a trap there, but I and others have written out painstaking lines of reasoning that would apply to any situation where a trap was at all likely. The objection to this trap, therefore, seems to lie on: (1) A Search check didn't find it. This is not sufficient reason in my book for a trap to be unfair. (2) It required a very high save. Again, this is not sufficient reason in my book for a trap to be unfair. and (3) Failure to make that save was lethal. The combination of (2) and (3) could certainly contribute to a trap being unfair if there was reason to believe that a party had no way to discern that a trap was probably there (not so in this case) and it was demonstrable that reasonable prudence could not locate/disarm the trap (again, not so in this case). RC [/QUOTE]
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