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Is this fair? -- your personal opinion
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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3052484" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Okay, I'll tell you what I infer.</p><p></p><p>If a PC died, someone made a mistake. That someone was either the DM or one or more of the players.</p><p></p><p>You say</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I say</p><p></p><p>Yes, it seems dumb for a secret door to be opened by an obvious lever, and that alone is a fair indication that this is a trap. </p><p></p><p>When you were making a determination based on average responses, the problem that you perforce encounter is that "Take 10/20 should work to locate the trap" and "Rogue should Take 10/20 when searching for the trap" are both average responses based upon the same criteria. Obviously, they cannot both be true here -- either Take 10/20 doesn't work, or the rogue didn't Take 10/20. Either the DM screwed up or the player(s) screwed up. </p><p></p><p>And, frankly, because the DM could have simply told the monk that the save succeeded regardless of what was written in his notes, we must assume that if the DM screwed up here he was simply not playing fair. He upped the save DC, or didn't drop the clues, or was mad at the monk's player. The only alternative is that, even when it came to the moment, the DM somehow failed to realize that his trap design was deadlier than he intended <em>even though</em> (as some argue) <em>the players did everything right</em>.</p><p></p><p>In other words, this seems to me to be a choice between (1) the players screwed up and the DM let the dice fall where they may, or (2) the DM decided to kill the monk. </p><p></p><p>Which of these two seems more likely, on "average"?</p><p></p><p>I argue that, given this situation, <em>unless we have compelling reason to believe otherwise</em> it is necessary to assume that the DM played fair. This is because, <em>if for no other reason</em>, the game absolutely sucks if you spend it blaming every PC failure on the DM.</p><p></p><p>Frankly, I find the numbers in this poll somewhat disturbing.</p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3052484, member: 18280"] Okay, I'll tell you what I infer. If a PC died, someone made a mistake. That someone was either the DM or one or more of the players. You say I say Yes, it seems dumb for a secret door to be opened by an obvious lever, and that alone is a fair indication that this is a trap. When you were making a determination based on average responses, the problem that you perforce encounter is that "Take 10/20 should work to locate the trap" and "Rogue should Take 10/20 when searching for the trap" are both average responses based upon the same criteria. Obviously, they cannot both be true here -- either Take 10/20 doesn't work, or the rogue didn't Take 10/20. Either the DM screwed up or the player(s) screwed up. And, frankly, because the DM could have simply told the monk that the save succeeded regardless of what was written in his notes, we must assume that if the DM screwed up here he was simply not playing fair. He upped the save DC, or didn't drop the clues, or was mad at the monk's player. The only alternative is that, even when it came to the moment, the DM somehow failed to realize that his trap design was deadlier than he intended [i]even though[/i] (as some argue) [i]the players did everything right[/i]. In other words, this seems to me to be a choice between (1) the players screwed up and the DM let the dice fall where they may, or (2) the DM decided to kill the monk. Which of these two seems more likely, on "average"? I argue that, given this situation, [i]unless we have compelling reason to believe otherwise[/i] it is necessary to assume that the DM played fair. This is because, [i]if for no other reason[/i], the game absolutely sucks if you spend it blaming every PC failure on the DM. Frankly, I find the numbers in this poll somewhat disturbing. RC [/QUOTE]
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