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Is this fair? -- your personal opinion
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<blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 3052529" data-attributes="member: 12037"><p>IIRC the criteria wasn't that the rogue take 10 or 20, it was that it was easily searchable, within the limits of what the PC can reasonably do. Take a level 10 rogue with a 14 Int and a +5 item to search and disable device. He has a search and disable device of around +20. He can find a trap with a DC of 30 50% of the time with a single roll or all the time with a Take 10, and he can disable it easily with a Take 10.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Clues to cause you to search, or clues to cause you to believe the lever is trapped? </p><p></p><p>If you mean the latter, lets say a charred corpse still clutching the lever (it doesn't leave dust anymore), then I would say that it depends on how well non-rogue trap methods work. If a <em>dispel magic</em> won't suppress it, then we're back to unfair, for example. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What if the PCs hadn't found the secret door?</p><p></p><p>Wouldn't you find it strange if the PCs had searched the entire wall painstakingly (search DCs to find a secret door start at 20), but just decided to glance over the lever (roll once).</p><p></p><p>Why the connection between the two? This was debated pages and pages back, but there is <em>no</em> indication that the lever opens the secret door. None at all. And, throughout this thread it seems to be that the people who think that the trap is fair believe that the lever obviously opens the secret door. The people on the unfair side don't make that assumption. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is a (3). The DM didn't think it was a difficult trap, and didn't pull his punches when the monk pulled the lever. Good DMs do this all the time. They design a puzzle thinking the puzzle has an obvious solution, but what they don't realize is that other people won't see it as so obvious. Then they wonder why the Players are having such a hard time with it. This DM foolishly added in a death effect, thinking it wouldn't be too bad, because he didn't think anyone would pull the lever.</p><p></p><p>I find that option most likely.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ThirdWizard, post: 3052529, member: 12037"] IIRC the criteria wasn't that the rogue take 10 or 20, it was that it was easily searchable, within the limits of what the PC can reasonably do. Take a level 10 rogue with a 14 Int and a +5 item to search and disable device. He has a search and disable device of around +20. He can find a trap with a DC of 30 50% of the time with a single roll or all the time with a Take 10, and he can disable it easily with a Take 10. Clues to cause you to search, or clues to cause you to believe the lever is trapped? If you mean the latter, lets say a charred corpse still clutching the lever (it doesn't leave dust anymore), then I would say that it depends on how well non-rogue trap methods work. If a [i]dispel magic[/i] won't suppress it, then we're back to unfair, for example. What if the PCs hadn't found the secret door? Wouldn't you find it strange if the PCs had searched the entire wall painstakingly (search DCs to find a secret door start at 20), but just decided to glance over the lever (roll once). Why the connection between the two? This was debated pages and pages back, but there is [i]no[/i] indication that the lever opens the secret door. None at all. And, throughout this thread it seems to be that the people who think that the trap is fair believe that the lever obviously opens the secret door. The people on the unfair side don't make that assumption. There is a (3). The DM didn't think it was a difficult trap, and didn't pull his punches when the monk pulled the lever. Good DMs do this all the time. They design a puzzle thinking the puzzle has an obvious solution, but what they don't realize is that other people won't see it as so obvious. Then they wonder why the Players are having such a hard time with it. This DM foolishly added in a death effect, thinking it wouldn't be too bad, because he didn't think anyone would pull the lever. I find that option most likely. [/QUOTE]
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