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It's all Jack Vance's fault
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<blockquote data-quote="Cruentus" data-source="post: 8806163" data-attributes="member: 7034645"><p>Right, wizards used to rely on "magic" more heavily than other classes, but other classes also had character or class defining or enhancing magic items, and wizards had the most: rods, staves, wands, potions, scrolls of spells, etc. Wizards in 5e, due to the "magic items are not necessary for balance purposes" and the attunement limit, means that wizards now need to 1) get all of their ability/power from their innate spells, and 2) have to be able to keep pace/be on-par damage wise with all the other classes (which was not really a consideration in many "older" systems. So to sum up your second to last paragraph in 5e, for wizards "their magical resource pool going into adventures IS JUST SPELLS. </p><p></p><p>[USER=6799660]@Willie the Duck[/USER] I agree with your read on Vance/GG, particularly with "Another thing..." and spell lists. I think that Ad&d/2e weren't really an attempt to "balance" things, or to make sure everyone would be effective in the game. We always found that everyone was effective in "some part" of the game, but not all of them, even wizards. Between finding spells, components, disruption, low HP, every time you stepped into a fight, you were sweating it out, even at higher levels. And you never had all the spells, or necessarily the right spells, so you had to get creative. My 5e F2/W14 has some 102 or so HP (going from memory), and several pages of spells, spell like abilities, innate abilities, elven abilities, feats, etc. My Ad&d 11th level wizard has 44 HP, a page of spells, and no appreciable other abilities other than some NWPs/background skills, and his magic items. They're wildly different in play. The first I'm front and second lining (when the Barbarian isn't mulching everything in the front), while I'm terrified of fights with the latter.</p><p></p><p>[USER=18]@Ruin Explorer[/USER] I'm not Oofta, but I'm always searching out spell systems, alternatives, looking for ideas. I'd totally hop on a thread or discussion about other games, alternate systems, pros and cons, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cruentus, post: 8806163, member: 7034645"] Right, wizards used to rely on "magic" more heavily than other classes, but other classes also had character or class defining or enhancing magic items, and wizards had the most: rods, staves, wands, potions, scrolls of spells, etc. Wizards in 5e, due to the "magic items are not necessary for balance purposes" and the attunement limit, means that wizards now need to 1) get all of their ability/power from their innate spells, and 2) have to be able to keep pace/be on-par damage wise with all the other classes (which was not really a consideration in many "older" systems. So to sum up your second to last paragraph in 5e, for wizards "their magical resource pool going into adventures IS JUST SPELLS. [USER=6799660]@Willie the Duck[/USER] I agree with your read on Vance/GG, particularly with "Another thing..." and spell lists. I think that Ad&d/2e weren't really an attempt to "balance" things, or to make sure everyone would be effective in the game. We always found that everyone was effective in "some part" of the game, but not all of them, even wizards. Between finding spells, components, disruption, low HP, every time you stepped into a fight, you were sweating it out, even at higher levels. And you never had all the spells, or necessarily the right spells, so you had to get creative. My 5e F2/W14 has some 102 or so HP (going from memory), and several pages of spells, spell like abilities, innate abilities, elven abilities, feats, etc. My Ad&d 11th level wizard has 44 HP, a page of spells, and no appreciable other abilities other than some NWPs/background skills, and his magic items. They're wildly different in play. The first I'm front and second lining (when the Barbarian isn't mulching everything in the front), while I'm terrified of fights with the latter. [USER=18]@Ruin Explorer[/USER] I'm not Oofta, but I'm always searching out spell systems, alternatives, looking for ideas. I'd totally hop on a thread or discussion about other games, alternate systems, pros and cons, etc. [/QUOTE]
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