Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Jonathan Tweet talks "13th Age"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Transformer" data-source="post: 5915231" data-attributes="member: 70008"><p>I'm still not seeing it. I got the distinct impression that you can't fight the Icons and that the system assumes you'll never actually meet one. So it's all the same to the players, really, whether they're actually gods or individual people in the material world or offices that are filled by different people at different times; either way, they're the indistinct justification for factions and alignments and world events and such that you never really meet or interact with directly. They're the vague background justification for why this group of dwarves the PCs just found are fighting that group of elves they met last week. A distinction without a difference, judging from the little I've read so far.</p><p></p><p>I also didn't get the impression that the 13 Icons represent 13 distinct extremely powerful organizations which control the world. That would be an interesting and unique setting (though, I think, a little artificial, and not at all conducive to the kind of radical group-to-group customization Tweet is aiming for). But no, I get the impression that all the standard nations and clans and guilds and such that you'd find in any fantasy organization are around, but most of them have some vague background connection to one of the Icons. So, e.g., the thieves' guild (which the party rogue is a member of) is ultimately somewhere in the chain of command of one of the Icons, and that serves as an arbitrary justification for stuff the DM wants the thieves' guild to do ("You say it doesn't really make sense that the thieves' guild would do that? Well, it's part of the mysterious plans of an Icon; of course the party doesn't understand"). Or maybe the party runs into a cult that worships the Lich King Icon as a god (even if he's not). But it makes little difference to the players; they would still have to recover the McGuffin from the undead cult whether it worshipped an Icon or a god or nobody at all.</p><p></p><p>In fact, the more I hear about Icons the less I like them, because they sound more and more like a hard codification of the annoying "all-powerful NPCs who control everything and who are the real movers and shakers and whose esoteric goals and plans can be used to justify absolutely anything the DM wants to happen." I don't like that. I like my D&D decentralized, with lots of smaller heroes and villains and rules, all with clearly-defined goals and actions, not vague NPC-gods who control everything and who don't have to have clear and logical motivations for what they do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Transformer, post: 5915231, member: 70008"] I'm still not seeing it. I got the distinct impression that you can't fight the Icons and that the system assumes you'll never actually meet one. So it's all the same to the players, really, whether they're actually gods or individual people in the material world or offices that are filled by different people at different times; either way, they're the indistinct justification for factions and alignments and world events and such that you never really meet or interact with directly. They're the vague background justification for why this group of dwarves the PCs just found are fighting that group of elves they met last week. A distinction without a difference, judging from the little I've read so far. I also didn't get the impression that the 13 Icons represent 13 distinct extremely powerful organizations which control the world. That would be an interesting and unique setting (though, I think, a little artificial, and not at all conducive to the kind of radical group-to-group customization Tweet is aiming for). But no, I get the impression that all the standard nations and clans and guilds and such that you'd find in any fantasy organization are around, but most of them have some vague background connection to one of the Icons. So, e.g., the thieves' guild (which the party rogue is a member of) is ultimately somewhere in the chain of command of one of the Icons, and that serves as an arbitrary justification for stuff the DM wants the thieves' guild to do ("You say it doesn't really make sense that the thieves' guild would do that? Well, it's part of the mysterious plans of an Icon; of course the party doesn't understand"). Or maybe the party runs into a cult that worships the Lich King Icon as a god (even if he's not). But it makes little difference to the players; they would still have to recover the McGuffin from the undead cult whether it worshipped an Icon or a god or nobody at all. In fact, the more I hear about Icons the less I like them, because they sound more and more like a hard codification of the annoying "all-powerful NPCs who control everything and who are the real movers and shakers and whose esoteric goals and plans can be used to justify absolutely anything the DM wants to happen." I don't like that. I like my D&D decentralized, with lots of smaller heroes and villains and rules, all with clearly-defined goals and actions, not vague NPC-gods who control everything and who don't have to have clear and logical motivations for what they do. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Jonathan Tweet talks "13th Age"
Top