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Jorune d20
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<blockquote data-quote="Gallowglass" data-source="post: 228627" data-attributes="member: 5284"><p>*sigh* time to show my age: played in a 2nd Edition SOJ campaign at University in the late 80's, ran two 2nd edition campaigns and three third edition campaigns between 1990 and 1999. Third edition was a huge improvement over 2nd, and I love the qualitative aspect of the skills and teh tension of combat. But Dysha's were a nightmare and much of the system required tweaking</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>In the Player's Handbook section on skills (sorry, books at home) there are rules for assessing skill use without die rolls: taking ten (i.e. just add ten to you skill modifier) and taking twenty. Both assume that you have a relatively low stress environment (i.e. you aren't under attack!) and taking 20 requires that the skill be something you can build up a success with and takes quite some time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's workable. My concern is that one of the weaknesses of 3e is the munckin-friendly approach to classes and prestige classes that can over complicate the game and I'd hate to see Jorune fall for that. Something like a basic Martial / Non-Martial Disctinction, with skill packages / feats tailoring to specific backgrounds sounds like it fits the world well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely: my restriction on the Bronth was on the basis that whilst fascinating, given the games I ran the characters would frequently end up in excessively difficult situations that would penalise them more if they role played well, or tick off the other players if they abused it. It just seemd to save grief all round to leave Bronth as a NPC's or campaign specific PC's. With the Human Races, Crugar, Cygra and Woffen you have a good basic range and I was always prepared to allow the possibility of Thivin or (later in the time line) Tologra if the player made a good pitch...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good point, and many of the suggestions I threw out probably fail at that test so need binning. I do think that of teh d20 games _published_, what I have seen of Spycraft (esp Spycraft Lite) is great: some nice work smoothing out some of the fiddly detail in d20 combat which might prove useful in Jorune.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Showing my non-d20 roots here <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Why does working in the Burdothian military make a Muadra phenomenally tough and a Boccord who has trained as a hishtin a push over when the Boccord masses so much more than the Muadra? It just makes more sense to me that Hit Die / fatigue should have a degree of correlation to the individuals baseline physical properties and _then_ be influenced by that individuals health. However, this is a change from base d20 (albeit it's just a difference, not a complication) so it's not something I'd argue _that_ strongly for...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sounds cool. If Traveller d20 gets out soon, I'd recommended having a peak at that. Do't know what they have done exactly (didn't get in on the play tests <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /> ) but they have very definetly tried to keep the Traveller prior experience idea.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And quite right too, when there was no reason for me to suggest a dice roll! Just drop the AC idea, have a Defense that sets the Attackers DC that is 10+Dex Modifer (Possible Reflex Save Bonus?)- Armour Check Penalty and Armour has Damage Resistance. Mechanically similar to core d20, just how you get some of the final numbers is a little different.</p><p></p><p>Exceptional circumstances could add to Defense (Isho based perception skills?) and it might be worth dropping strength from Melee Atack Bonus and putting Dex in their instead. I like the way Spycraft has streamlined d20 combat, _but_ given how melee intensive a setting Jorune is (combat is more likely to be a brawl or melee than a firefight, even with Dyshas) I'm not sure we can drop AoO's. A more streamlined and intuitive mechanism would be nice though,and would probably make it into my D&D games <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> .</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From memory, Dyshas use Isho points which the Mudra has built up within them dependent on the Isho weather, so hit points wouldn't map across very well. A Fortitiude Save (or even a "mental warmth" roll as in the Diablo:II 3e adaptation of d20+CHA vs 12+Spell level to retain use of the spell after casting) whilst also appealing, doesn't really capture the feel of the world. Isho needs to a be a point total, probably per level like Psionic Strength Points, modified by Charisma(?) and affected by the prevailing Isho conditions. In fact, for all I think much of the 3e Psionics is horribly broken, there is still much there worth looking at and it's probably a better model for PC Dysha weavers than traditional D&D / d20 Magic.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hope my comments are of some help, wish I had more time to contribute. I look forward to seeing what you come up with <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gallowglass, post: 228627, member: 5284"] *sigh* time to show my age: played in a 2nd Edition SOJ campaign at University in the late 80's, ran two 2nd edition campaigns and three third edition campaigns between 1990 and 1999. Third edition was a huge improvement over 2nd, and I love the qualitative aspect of the skills and teh tension of combat. But Dysha's were a nightmare and much of the system required tweaking [B] [/B] In the Player's Handbook section on skills (sorry, books at home) there are rules for assessing skill use without die rolls: taking ten (i.e. just add ten to you skill modifier) and taking twenty. Both assume that you have a relatively low stress environment (i.e. you aren't under attack!) and taking 20 requires that the skill be something you can build up a success with and takes quite some time. That's workable. My concern is that one of the weaknesses of 3e is the munckin-friendly approach to classes and prestige classes that can over complicate the game and I'd hate to see Jorune fall for that. Something like a basic Martial / Non-Martial Disctinction, with skill packages / feats tailoring to specific backgrounds sounds like it fits the world well. Absolutely: my restriction on the Bronth was on the basis that whilst fascinating, given the games I ran the characters would frequently end up in excessively difficult situations that would penalise them more if they role played well, or tick off the other players if they abused it. It just seemd to save grief all round to leave Bronth as a NPC's or campaign specific PC's. With the Human Races, Crugar, Cygra and Woffen you have a good basic range and I was always prepared to allow the possibility of Thivin or (later in the time line) Tologra if the player made a good pitch... Good point, and many of the suggestions I threw out probably fail at that test so need binning. I do think that of teh d20 games _published_, what I have seen of Spycraft (esp Spycraft Lite) is great: some nice work smoothing out some of the fiddly detail in d20 combat which might prove useful in Jorune. Showing my non-d20 roots here ;) Why does working in the Burdothian military make a Muadra phenomenally tough and a Boccord who has trained as a hishtin a push over when the Boccord masses so much more than the Muadra? It just makes more sense to me that Hit Die / fatigue should have a degree of correlation to the individuals baseline physical properties and _then_ be influenced by that individuals health. However, this is a change from base d20 (albeit it's just a difference, not a complication) so it's not something I'd argue _that_ strongly for... Sounds cool. If Traveller d20 gets out soon, I'd recommended having a peak at that. Do't know what they have done exactly (didn't get in on the play tests :( ) but they have very definetly tried to keep the Traveller prior experience idea. And quite right too, when there was no reason for me to suggest a dice roll! Just drop the AC idea, have a Defense that sets the Attackers DC that is 10+Dex Modifer (Possible Reflex Save Bonus?)- Armour Check Penalty and Armour has Damage Resistance. Mechanically similar to core d20, just how you get some of the final numbers is a little different. Exceptional circumstances could add to Defense (Isho based perception skills?) and it might be worth dropping strength from Melee Atack Bonus and putting Dex in their instead. I like the way Spycraft has streamlined d20 combat, _but_ given how melee intensive a setting Jorune is (combat is more likely to be a brawl or melee than a firefight, even with Dyshas) I'm not sure we can drop AoO's. A more streamlined and intuitive mechanism would be nice though,and would probably make it into my D&D games ;) . From memory, Dyshas use Isho points which the Mudra has built up within them dependent on the Isho weather, so hit points wouldn't map across very well. A Fortitiude Save (or even a "mental warmth" roll as in the Diablo:II 3e adaptation of d20+CHA vs 12+Spell level to retain use of the spell after casting) whilst also appealing, doesn't really capture the feel of the world. Isho needs to a be a point total, probably per level like Psionic Strength Points, modified by Charisma(?) and affected by the prevailing Isho conditions. In fact, for all I think much of the 3e Psionics is horribly broken, there is still much there worth looking at and it's probably a better model for PC Dysha weavers than traditional D&D / d20 Magic. Hope my comments are of some help, wish I had more time to contribute. I look forward to seeing what you come up with :) [/QUOTE]
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