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Just becaue it's October - Witches?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7254611" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>OK, in a sense. In the past - not even that long past - there was really no separating religious belief from practical knowledge - 'science' today, I guess we might say 'superstition' in the past. Today, we have a very strong secular movement (not as strong as a lot of us seem to think, but more significant, by far than it has ever been before). </p><p></p><p>It's not unusual to tease out the history of science from the religion of it's day. Many historical figures now regarded as early scientists were Monks or priests or mystics or at least devout laity, and regarded their research as a religious pursuit, respectful of God and His creation. </p><p></p><p>The same's true of the archetypes of the modern concept of a 'wizard,' which, obviously, predates D&D. It teases out a secular vision of magic for it's own sake from the theurgy (ironically 'Theurgist' was a wizard level title back in the day) and mysticism actually practiced by the people who inspired the wizard idea - everyone from the mythical Hermes Trimagest to Paracelsus to Crowley. Paracelsus, for instance, can be teased out as a scientist (physician, who debunked some fake cures), as invoking supernatural beings (he inscribed talismans that invoked 'angels' to perform healing), or as occultist (he was a firm believer in astrology and a famous alchemist).</p><p></p><p>So saying that wizards are really animists is like saying scientists are really monks. There was just a time when the line wasn't drawn so clearly. Today, the secular is more prominent, so teasing out religion seems like a natural thing to do. Tease out the religion from Hermeticism, you get wizards. :shrug:</p><p></p><p> They do, a bit. The idea of will, intent, and the like is certainly there in many such traditions. Little bits taken out of context imply that sort of thing. "As I will so mote it be!" <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> It's called 'magical thinking,' it's fairly intuitive, children often fall into it, for instance. You wish someone hurt, they get hurt, you think you did it. </p><p></p><p> Ah... a lot of them, yes. Some of that, at least, is the result of the Christian spin on such beliefs, blaming it all on the Devil, and such. </p><p></p><p> Catholicism is more than a little mystical, and includes plenty of practices that could be classified as Theurgy. So, not as off-base as all that. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>OH, that's what all the above was about.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7254611, member: 996"] OK, in a sense. In the past - not even that long past - there was really no separating religious belief from practical knowledge - 'science' today, I guess we might say 'superstition' in the past. Today, we have a very strong secular movement (not as strong as a lot of us seem to think, but more significant, by far than it has ever been before). It's not unusual to tease out the history of science from the religion of it's day. Many historical figures now regarded as early scientists were Monks or priests or mystics or at least devout laity, and regarded their research as a religious pursuit, respectful of God and His creation. The same's true of the archetypes of the modern concept of a 'wizard,' which, obviously, predates D&D. It teases out a secular vision of magic for it's own sake from the theurgy (ironically 'Theurgist' was a wizard level title back in the day) and mysticism actually practiced by the people who inspired the wizard idea - everyone from the mythical Hermes Trimagest to Paracelsus to Crowley. Paracelsus, for instance, can be teased out as a scientist (physician, who debunked some fake cures), as invoking supernatural beings (he inscribed talismans that invoked 'angels' to perform healing), or as occultist (he was a firm believer in astrology and a famous alchemist). So saying that wizards are really animists is like saying scientists are really monks. There was just a time when the line wasn't drawn so clearly. Today, the secular is more prominent, so teasing out religion seems like a natural thing to do. Tease out the religion from Hermeticism, you get wizards. :shrug: They do, a bit. The idea of will, intent, and the like is certainly there in many such traditions. Little bits taken out of context imply that sort of thing. "As I will so mote it be!" ;) It's called 'magical thinking,' it's fairly intuitive, children often fall into it, for instance. You wish someone hurt, they get hurt, you think you did it. Ah... a lot of them, yes. Some of that, at least, is the result of the Christian spin on such beliefs, blaming it all on the Devil, and such. Catholicism is more than a little mystical, and includes plenty of practices that could be classified as Theurgy. So, not as off-base as all that. ;) OH, that's what all the above was about. [/QUOTE]
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