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KINGMAKER: Crazy idea, or crazy like a fox?
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<blockquote data-quote="Steel_Wind" data-source="post: 5181310" data-attributes="member: 20741"><p>I think you are borrowing trouble with this approach to be honest. The nature of Adventure Paths is that they tend to be focussed campaigns with a definite beginning, middle and end.</p><p></p><p>This is a strength -- and a weakness as well. But I think the strengths outweigh the weaknesses. Even when that weakness means there is an "end".</p><p></p><p>I also think that the tendency to "reset" to lower levels also emphasizes the strengths of 3.5 and <em>Pathfinder </em>play. High level campaigns are simply not the "sweet spot" of D&D. The game plays <strong><em>much </em></strong>better at lower to mid-levels -- and plays <strong><em>much worse</em></strong> at higher levels. The quality of ANY campaign under under 3.5 or <em>Pathfinder</em> begins to significantly degrade past 12th-13th level.</p><p></p><p>At the same time, the quality of any campaign where there is little meaningful combat or character progress also degrades -- to the point where most players will become bored and unhappy.</p><p></p><p>So who wants to reset the game after the AP ends? <span style="color: Orange"><strong>Me</strong></span>, for one. As a GM -- I most definitely want to do this. And while your players might not <em>say</em> they want to do this NOW -- my guess is that after your Kingmaker campaign provides them with few challenges and no level advancement -- their opinion will change then, too.</p><p></p><p>So, how best to deal with this? Especially knowing what's coming down the road? </p><p></p><p>If it is too unpalatable to simply roll up brand new characters, I think another way to achieve what amounts to the same thing is to introduce lower level retainers, allies and henchman into your Council of Thieves campaign towards the later stages of that campaign. </p><p></p><p>Have your players decide who those lower level hanchmen will be and what those low level henchman will be doing. Work out and add in some meaningful contributions they can make to the Council of Thieves campaign. Interrupt your high level play with a lower level mini "side adventure" attached ot the CoC story arc. Use that opportunity to provide a back-story for these low level henchan characters and to assist the players in forging a connection between the low level characters and their higher level CoC PCs.</p><p></p><p>Then, when the <em>Council of Thieves </em>arc reaches its end -- continuing on with the <em>Kingmaker</em> campaign using those lower level henchmen as the characters "main" PCs will seem far more natural. The characters will still be connected to the prior campaign and the higher level PC veterans from <em>Council of Thieves </em>can act in an advisory and patronage capacity -- until the point is later reached in the <em>Kingmaker</em> Campaign where the "high level" PC veterans might take a more active role. Ultimately - those<em> CoC</em> veterans might be called out to participate as the "main" PCs in part of the <em>Kingmaker</em> campaign adventure as well.</p><p></p><p>My guess is -- by that point -- your players will be more significantly emotionally attached to their <em>Kingmaker </em>characters than the old <em>CoC</em> veterans will no longer be regarded as their "main" characters, but as more fond memories of characters "they used to play". </p><p></p><p>But at least such an approach informs both campaigns and provides a better and stronger foundation for both. All while still providing your players with meaningful combat and challenges and providing them with level advancement and meaningful rewards, too.</p><p></p><p>And, perhaps above all -- making your job as GM easier and more fulfilling, too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steel_Wind, post: 5181310, member: 20741"] I think you are borrowing trouble with this approach to be honest. The nature of Adventure Paths is that they tend to be focussed campaigns with a definite beginning, middle and end. This is a strength -- and a weakness as well. But I think the strengths outweigh the weaknesses. Even when that weakness means there is an "end". I also think that the tendency to "reset" to lower levels also emphasizes the strengths of 3.5 and [I]Pathfinder [/I]play. High level campaigns are simply not the "sweet spot" of D&D. The game plays [B][I]much [/I][/B]better at lower to mid-levels -- and plays [B][I]much worse[/I][/B] at higher levels. The quality of ANY campaign under under 3.5 or [I]Pathfinder[/I] begins to significantly degrade past 12th-13th level. At the same time, the quality of any campaign where there is little meaningful combat or character progress also degrades -- to the point where most players will become bored and unhappy. So who wants to reset the game after the AP ends? [COLOR=Orange][B]Me[/B][/COLOR], for one. As a GM -- I most definitely want to do this. And while your players might not [I]say[/I] they want to do this NOW -- my guess is that after your Kingmaker campaign provides them with few challenges and no level advancement -- their opinion will change then, too. So, how best to deal with this? Especially knowing what's coming down the road? If it is too unpalatable to simply roll up brand new characters, I think another way to achieve what amounts to the same thing is to introduce lower level retainers, allies and henchman into your Council of Thieves campaign towards the later stages of that campaign. Have your players decide who those lower level hanchmen will be and what those low level henchman will be doing. Work out and add in some meaningful contributions they can make to the Council of Thieves campaign. Interrupt your high level play with a lower level mini "side adventure" attached ot the CoC story arc. Use that opportunity to provide a back-story for these low level henchan characters and to assist the players in forging a connection between the low level characters and their higher level CoC PCs. Then, when the [I]Council of Thieves [/I]arc reaches its end -- continuing on with the [I]Kingmaker[/I] campaign using those lower level henchmen as the characters "main" PCs will seem far more natural. The characters will still be connected to the prior campaign and the higher level PC veterans from [I]Council of Thieves [/I]can act in an advisory and patronage capacity -- until the point is later reached in the [I]Kingmaker[/I] Campaign where the "high level" PC veterans might take a more active role. Ultimately - those[I] CoC[/I] veterans might be called out to participate as the "main" PCs in part of the [I]Kingmaker[/I] campaign adventure as well. My guess is -- by that point -- your players will be more significantly emotionally attached to their [I]Kingmaker [/I]characters than the old [I]CoC[/I] veterans will no longer be regarded as their "main" characters, but as more fond memories of characters "they used to play". But at least such an approach informs both campaigns and provides a better and stronger foundation for both. All while still providing your players with meaningful combat and challenges and providing them with level advancement and meaningful rewards, too. And, perhaps above all -- making your job as GM easier and more fulfilling, too. [/QUOTE]
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