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L&L: Putting the Vance in Vancian
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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5834248" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>Yep - and it never really worked for me or many who I gamed with; that's why I walked away from it around 1981 or so, after desperately trying to like it (in its new incarnation, AD&D) for a couple of years.</p><p></p><p>There were already systems around that were just more functional by then - first it was Chivalry & Sorcery, then RuneQuest and Traveller, then Bushido and its spin-offs Daredevils and Aftermath.</p><p></p><p>Maybe it was our introduction to RPGs. OD&D was a neat idea, but the booklets were in short supply in the UK, so we took the ideas and ran with them. The old duelling game "En Garde" mixed with D&D concepts gave us our first homebrews. Then we got our OD&D boxes - and were just confused as to how the heck this game was supposed to really work. We hoped all would be answered in AD&D. It wasn't - there were just a load of nonsensical, random systems and concepts, quaintly phrased and melded together into a muddled mass that never really seemed to work together.</p><p></p><p>Enter C&S and (especially) RuneQuest. C&S was overcomplex, but it was at least based on a sound world chassis, and RQ had rules that actually felt like they belonged together!</p><p></p><p>Years later, I dabbled a bit in 2E (because by then I had money to spend and several of the worlds were very nice) and then played some 3E (OK up to ~level 8, but went rapidly downhill thereafter; way too complex to GM).</p><p></p><p>It was 4E that finally bought me back to D&D. A game system that actually works - halleluja! I now DM for seven players on sporadic weekends going through the H1-E3 set of modules (with additions and modifications). I'm loving GMing more then I have in ages and the players are gobbling up the system with a vengeance. It took a while to "click", for sure. To begin with I was highly sceptical of the "bizzarre geometry" of the square grid and of retraining and fighter dailies. But, the truth is, it just <strong><em>works</em></strong>. I have never either played or run D&D up to the mid- to late-teen-levels before; this game is there and showing no signs of pausing, never mind stopping. I think 30th level is an entirely plausible end game for us to reach.</p><p></p><p>Sorry for the spontaneous "rant", but it looks to me like the D&DN team has not learned any of what I consider the really <strong><em>important</em></strong> lessons of 4E. They talk about "tactical combat" and such like as if they were what the main attractions of 4E are - they just miss the point, entirely.</p><p></p><p>I guess I'll just keep playing 4E, but I really wish there was an OGL for it, of the sort that kept 3.x alive (for those who like that sort of thing). Heigh, ho.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 5834248, member: 27160"] Yep - and it never really worked for me or many who I gamed with; that's why I walked away from it around 1981 or so, after desperately trying to like it (in its new incarnation, AD&D) for a couple of years. There were already systems around that were just more functional by then - first it was Chivalry & Sorcery, then RuneQuest and Traveller, then Bushido and its spin-offs Daredevils and Aftermath. Maybe it was our introduction to RPGs. OD&D was a neat idea, but the booklets were in short supply in the UK, so we took the ideas and ran with them. The old duelling game "En Garde" mixed with D&D concepts gave us our first homebrews. Then we got our OD&D boxes - and were just confused as to how the heck this game was supposed to really work. We hoped all would be answered in AD&D. It wasn't - there were just a load of nonsensical, random systems and concepts, quaintly phrased and melded together into a muddled mass that never really seemed to work together. Enter C&S and (especially) RuneQuest. C&S was overcomplex, but it was at least based on a sound world chassis, and RQ had rules that actually felt like they belonged together! Years later, I dabbled a bit in 2E (because by then I had money to spend and several of the worlds were very nice) and then played some 3E (OK up to ~level 8, but went rapidly downhill thereafter; way too complex to GM). It was 4E that finally bought me back to D&D. A game system that actually works - halleluja! I now DM for seven players on sporadic weekends going through the H1-E3 set of modules (with additions and modifications). I'm loving GMing more then I have in ages and the players are gobbling up the system with a vengeance. It took a while to "click", for sure. To begin with I was highly sceptical of the "bizzarre geometry" of the square grid and of retraining and fighter dailies. But, the truth is, it just [B][I]works[/I][/B]. I have never either played or run D&D up to the mid- to late-teen-levels before; this game is there and showing no signs of pausing, never mind stopping. I think 30th level is an entirely plausible end game for us to reach. Sorry for the spontaneous "rant", but it looks to me like the D&DN team has not learned any of what I consider the really [B][I]important[/I][/B] lessons of 4E. They talk about "tactical combat" and such like as if they were what the main attractions of 4E are - they just miss the point, entirely. I guess I'll just keep playing 4E, but I really wish there was an OGL for it, of the sort that kept 3.x alive (for those who like that sort of thing). Heigh, ho. [/QUOTE]
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