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L&L: The Challenges of High Level Play
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 5825247" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>Personally I never really managed to run a campaign up to high level (let's say beyond 15 in 3ed). <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /></p><p></p><p>Complexity becoming too much and dragging the game down is one issue, although I believe it can be avoided or mitigated if players and DM design PC/NPC accordingly. At least I know that when I had to run high-level spellcasting NPC I often didn't bother selecting all their spells perfectly but rather pick some key spells and prepare them multiple times, at the same time avoiding feats and magic items that need activation and stick to "flat bonus/always active" types.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, my biggest disappointment with high-level play was almost complete lack of support to the DM in published books... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /> </p><p></p><p>I don't want high-level play to be only "big numbers & high tactical complexity (i.e. lots of character weapons)", but I understand that this could be one way of intending it, and this should be supported by the rules (which is) but also the books should give instructions and tools to the DM on how to handle it properly (which isn't).</p><p></p><p>The other type of high level play, which is the one I would be more interested in, is about taking the campaign to a whole new level by expanding the geographical and historical scope (space + time), and once again I think 3ed books have not delivered any support for that.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>To clarify what I mean with that... I've just gotten hold on some of the BECMI books (unfortunately not all of them) which I wanted to read since a long time. So far I've only read the first player's book, but it seems to me that the idea of the BECMI series was that of separating different gaming experiences, by taking the scope to a new level every time, adding not only character material but also new rules.</p><p></p><p>So with the Basic rules your PC are concerned with dungeon adventures. The typical geographyical scope is local (one dungeon), and the typical historical scope is one day. Survival, treasure, experience are the focus.</p><p></p><p>Move to Expert, and the scope increases: adventures move to the wilderness (forests, mountains, deserts, swamps...) so the typical space stretches in size to an area that is going to be handled differently (navigation is not room-by-room but more vague), and the timeframe includes handling rests, travels, food & water.</p><p></p><p>In the Companion tier, your PC's concerns turn towards your role in society: your reference space is your country or continent, your reference time is years, and you're now dealing with wars, rulership, and gaining power that is not measured much with your personal ability in a fight but rather in how you can get the rest of the world adapt around you to get what you want.</p><p></p><p>Next is Master ruleset where your aim is to make history and become subject for tales and folklore: the "space" you refer to ss the whole world, and the time is beyond your life.</p><p></p><p>Finally there's the Immortal set, about ascending to godhood or similar things. Space is all. Time is all. If you go far enough, you may actually create or alter space and time itself, creating new worlds for example.</p><p></p><p>I don't mean that the game should definitely work like that, or that these are all necessary to cover. But if I understand right (although I still have to read those books, so I might be wrong...) the BECMI approach was to really conceive different games at different tiers. 3ed and 4ed didn't really do that... maybe 4ed works better, but from what I hear, the game at higher tiers is still pretty much "kill the monsters and take their stuff".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 5825247, member: 1465"] Personally I never really managed to run a campaign up to high level (let's say beyond 15 in 3ed). :confused: Complexity becoming too much and dragging the game down is one issue, although I believe it can be avoided or mitigated if players and DM design PC/NPC accordingly. At least I know that when I had to run high-level spellcasting NPC I often didn't bother selecting all their spells perfectly but rather pick some key spells and prepare them multiple times, at the same time avoiding feats and magic items that need activation and stick to "flat bonus/always active" types. Anyway, my biggest disappointment with high-level play was almost complete lack of support to the DM in published books... :( I don't want high-level play to be only "big numbers & high tactical complexity (i.e. lots of character weapons)", but I understand that this could be one way of intending it, and this should be supported by the rules (which is) but also the books should give instructions and tools to the DM on how to handle it properly (which isn't). The other type of high level play, which is the one I would be more interested in, is about taking the campaign to a whole new level by expanding the geographical and historical scope (space + time), and once again I think 3ed books have not delivered any support for that. --- To clarify what I mean with that... I've just gotten hold on some of the BECMI books (unfortunately not all of them) which I wanted to read since a long time. So far I've only read the first player's book, but it seems to me that the idea of the BECMI series was that of separating different gaming experiences, by taking the scope to a new level every time, adding not only character material but also new rules. So with the Basic rules your PC are concerned with dungeon adventures. The typical geographyical scope is local (one dungeon), and the typical historical scope is one day. Survival, treasure, experience are the focus. Move to Expert, and the scope increases: adventures move to the wilderness (forests, mountains, deserts, swamps...) so the typical space stretches in size to an area that is going to be handled differently (navigation is not room-by-room but more vague), and the timeframe includes handling rests, travels, food & water. In the Companion tier, your PC's concerns turn towards your role in society: your reference space is your country or continent, your reference time is years, and you're now dealing with wars, rulership, and gaining power that is not measured much with your personal ability in a fight but rather in how you can get the rest of the world adapt around you to get what you want. Next is Master ruleset where your aim is to make history and become subject for tales and folklore: the "space" you refer to ss the whole world, and the time is beyond your life. Finally there's the Immortal set, about ascending to godhood or similar things. Space is all. Time is all. If you go far enough, you may actually create or alter space and time itself, creating new worlds for example. I don't mean that the game should definitely work like that, or that these are all necessary to cover. But if I understand right (although I still have to read those books, so I might be wrong...) the BECMI approach was to really conceive different games at different tiers. 3ed and 4ed didn't really do that... maybe 4ed works better, but from what I hear, the game at higher tiers is still pretty much "kill the monsters and take their stuff". [/QUOTE]
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