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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
L&L: The Challenges of High Level Play
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5827327" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>This has probably been pointed out, but:</p><p></p><p>"In every single edition, when you start talking about high-level play, someone invariably says that the game breaks down after about 12th level. (Sometimes they say 10th, sometimes 8th, sometimes 15th, and so on—the point is the same.) This "truism" of D&D is so ingrained that it doesn't matter what edition you are talking about. So, despite the fact that high-level 4th Edition play is quite different than high-level 1st Edition play, the general commentary about how high-level play breaks down remains the same."</p><p></p><p>Once again, in his haste to throw 4e under the bus, Monte is mis-representing it. 4e, alone among the extant versions of the game, does not break down, mechanically at high levels. It has a kluge or two in place to make 'The Math' work out, but it chugs right along at all levels. Classes remain balanced, encounters remain balanced, the game remains playable. No one claims that high-level play breaks down in 4e. Even the 'h4ters' don't bother trying a whopper like that, prefering to claim that the game doesn't change apreciably with tier (also false, but not nearly as far from the truth).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Getting back to the rest of the game's history - the only part that matters, clearly - you'd have to be in full-on ostritch mode to pretend that it hasn't always run into serious balance issues beyond fairly low levels. Sure, early D&D may have had serious balance issues at all levels, but they got a lot worse as you went to higher levels. 3.x was actually pretty fair at low levels, but failed as casters exploded in power as level increased. It's a very legitimate criticism, hiding behind 'sytle' (a badly-broken game is just our 'style!') isn't helping.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5827327, member: 996"] This has probably been pointed out, but: "In every single edition, when you start talking about high-level play, someone invariably says that the game breaks down after about 12th level. (Sometimes they say 10th, sometimes 8th, sometimes 15th, and so on—the point is the same.) This "truism" of D&D is so ingrained that it doesn't matter what edition you are talking about. So, despite the fact that high-level 4th Edition play is quite different than high-level 1st Edition play, the general commentary about how high-level play breaks down remains the same." Once again, in his haste to throw 4e under the bus, Monte is mis-representing it. 4e, alone among the extant versions of the game, does not break down, mechanically at high levels. It has a kluge or two in place to make 'The Math' work out, but it chugs right along at all levels. Classes remain balanced, encounters remain balanced, the game remains playable. No one claims that high-level play breaks down in 4e. Even the 'h4ters' don't bother trying a whopper like that, prefering to claim that the game doesn't change apreciably with tier (also false, but not nearly as far from the truth). Getting back to the rest of the game's history - the only part that matters, clearly - you'd have to be in full-on ostritch mode to pretend that it hasn't always run into serious balance issues beyond fairly low levels. Sure, early D&D may have had serious balance issues at all levels, but they got a lot worse as you went to higher levels. 3.x was actually pretty fair at low levels, but failed as casters exploded in power as level increased. It's a very legitimate criticism, hiding behind 'sytle' (a badly-broken game is just our 'style!') isn't helping. [/QUOTE]
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