Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
L&L: The Challenges of High Level Play
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mokona" data-source="post: 5829247" data-attributes="member: 24891"><p>Howdy Tony Vargas:</p><p></p><p>* - emphasis added</p><p></p><p>I claim that <strong>D&D</strong> 4th edition breaks down at high level.</p><p></p><p>How do I know this? I played straight through in 4e from 1st level to 20th level (I am, of course, defining high-level as anything above level 12 per Monte's column). The PCs consisted of a human wizard (stunlock style though not quite broken), human archer ranger, human (super-teleport-optimized) warlock, halfling paladin (with lost-in-the-crowd insane Armor Class), and dragonborn warlord. Combat took too long. 15th+ level combat took FOREVER. Each PC turn was very complicated. By 20th level the ranger took minutes just to add up all her conditional, temporary, and warlord-granted damage modifiers and then add multiple successful hits together (plus crits).</p><p></p><p>The "math" of 4e does not work so they had to "fix" it. I still don't think they got it right. Once milestones determine PC capabilities it is totally up to the DM's style whether the players can reach milestones and activate magic rings or other milestone-limited abilities. Combat is so SLOW that you don't want to play through extra filler combats just to hit milestones.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mokona, post: 5829247, member: 24891"] Howdy Tony Vargas: * - emphasis added I claim that [B]D&D[/B] 4th edition breaks down at high level. How do I know this? I played straight through in 4e from 1st level to 20th level (I am, of course, defining high-level as anything above level 12 per Monte's column). The PCs consisted of a human wizard (stunlock style though not quite broken), human archer ranger, human (super-teleport-optimized) warlock, halfling paladin (with lost-in-the-crowd insane Armor Class), and dragonborn warlord. Combat took too long. 15th+ level combat took FOREVER. Each PC turn was very complicated. By 20th level the ranger took minutes just to add up all her conditional, temporary, and warlord-granted damage modifiers and then add multiple successful hits together (plus crits). The "math" of 4e does not work so they had to "fix" it. I still don't think they got it right. Once milestones determine PC capabilities it is totally up to the DM's style whether the players can reach milestones and activate magic rings or other milestone-limited abilities. Combat is so SLOW that you don't want to play through extra filler combats just to hit milestones. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
L&L: The Challenges of High Level Play
Top