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last encounter was totally one-sided
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 6968237" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>Yes. It was the part where you described the GIANT owls as small that made things unclear. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, that's not what I did, so do not accuse me of hypocrisy. </p><p></p><p>I didn't mention the math to support 300 orcs being a viable threat. Instead, I said that the only reason your PCs don't think of 300 orcs as a threat is because they're too aware of the math themselves. Put the math aside for a bit and simply think about the scenario. Yes, level 15 PCs are powerful, we all know what kinds of abilities they have access to. But if there is only 6 of them, why would they feel they can slaughter 300 orcs so easily? The characters I mean. Why would the characters think that? Why would they assume they alone in the world have access to such potent abilities? There can't be orcs who are powerful fighters? Or clerics of Gruumsh? Or any other possible thing that would make an orc more than the 1/8 CR your players know them to be?</p><p></p><p>That's what I was suggesting you change. The fact that your players know what they face at all times. What you need to do is present them with a horde of orcs that have scoured the countryside razing towns and slaughtering any force who has opposed them, laying waste in the name of their dark one eyed god. Instead, you present them with 300 orcs from page 230 of the Monster Manual. </p><p></p><p>You have to make the players unsure of what they are facing in order to make the characters behave that way. Your players are so certain of their victory that their characters have no fear....combat is never not an option for them. </p><p></p><p>That's bad. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would disagree that a battle with a dragon is hugely in the PCs favor. A party of 6 is a party at about 150% expected power, so a small adjustment or two might be in order, but for the most part, I think it's a decent challenge. Now, I say that for my players who, despite being perfectly capable of min-maxing to the gills, don't do so because they don't care to. That's not to say they don't make perfectly capable characters, but they're not doing nonsensical things like only picking a race that has dark vision and multi-classing solely for the abilities and so on. If you have a group like that, then a few more adjustments are likely in order. </p><p></p><p>Nothing too drastic would be required though. Not if the dragon is played intelligently. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't use narration to handle mechanical inconsistencies. I use narration to create the world the PCs interact with. So ultimately, how they interact with the world is the result of how I present it. So, if I want PCs to behave as if they are the absolute best thing on the planet, I narrate things one way, and if I want my PCs to believe that they can be in danger from time to time, then I narrate another. </p><p></p><p>The math is only supposed to come into things when the outcome is in doubt. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't stick anywhere near as closely to the 6-8 encounters a day as [MENTION=6788736]Flamestrike[/MENTION]. I recognize it as a perfectly reasonable way to balancce the game. There are certainly times when I have several encounters in a day. Usually it's more like 2 or 3. Sometimes it's 1. Number of encounters is one way to do it, but there are others.</p><p></p><p>I think the most important is to not be predictable. Don't always have the same number of encounters, don't always use monsters straight out of the books, don't always make it possible for the PCs to win a given fight. Vary things up and your players will be unsure of what to expect, and then that's half the battle right there. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Meh the CR system is for beginners. Once you're comfortable, it can and should be abandoned, in my opinion. </p><p></p><p>As for it taking more work to come up with a way for the big bad to threaten the PCs, I think this edition is easier. You just give it the stars you want. No need to "show your work"....+4 from bull's strength and +2 from divine favor and he's now large because of righteous might, so he gets another +4 and his weapon now does 2d8 instead of blah blah blah.</p><p></p><p>3E and it's derivatives were so dependent on all the numbers adding up. 5E is not like that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 6968237, member: 6785785"] Yes. It was the part where you described the GIANT owls as small that made things unclear. No, that's not what I did, so do not accuse me of hypocrisy. I didn't mention the math to support 300 orcs being a viable threat. Instead, I said that the only reason your PCs don't think of 300 orcs as a threat is because they're too aware of the math themselves. Put the math aside for a bit and simply think about the scenario. Yes, level 15 PCs are powerful, we all know what kinds of abilities they have access to. But if there is only 6 of them, why would they feel they can slaughter 300 orcs so easily? The characters I mean. Why would the characters think that? Why would they assume they alone in the world have access to such potent abilities? There can't be orcs who are powerful fighters? Or clerics of Gruumsh? Or any other possible thing that would make an orc more than the 1/8 CR your players know them to be? That's what I was suggesting you change. The fact that your players know what they face at all times. What you need to do is present them with a horde of orcs that have scoured the countryside razing towns and slaughtering any force who has opposed them, laying waste in the name of their dark one eyed god. Instead, you present them with 300 orcs from page 230 of the Monster Manual. You have to make the players unsure of what they are facing in order to make the characters behave that way. Your players are so certain of their victory that their characters have no fear....combat is never not an option for them. That's bad. I would disagree that a battle with a dragon is hugely in the PCs favor. A party of 6 is a party at about 150% expected power, so a small adjustment or two might be in order, but for the most part, I think it's a decent challenge. Now, I say that for my players who, despite being perfectly capable of min-maxing to the gills, don't do so because they don't care to. That's not to say they don't make perfectly capable characters, but they're not doing nonsensical things like only picking a race that has dark vision and multi-classing solely for the abilities and so on. If you have a group like that, then a few more adjustments are likely in order. Nothing too drastic would be required though. Not if the dragon is played intelligently. I don't use narration to handle mechanical inconsistencies. I use narration to create the world the PCs interact with. So ultimately, how they interact with the world is the result of how I present it. So, if I want PCs to behave as if they are the absolute best thing on the planet, I narrate things one way, and if I want my PCs to believe that they can be in danger from time to time, then I narrate another. The math is only supposed to come into things when the outcome is in doubt. I don't stick anywhere near as closely to the 6-8 encounters a day as [MENTION=6788736]Flamestrike[/MENTION]. I recognize it as a perfectly reasonable way to balancce the game. There are certainly times when I have several encounters in a day. Usually it's more like 2 or 3. Sometimes it's 1. Number of encounters is one way to do it, but there are others. I think the most important is to not be predictable. Don't always have the same number of encounters, don't always use monsters straight out of the books, don't always make it possible for the PCs to win a given fight. Vary things up and your players will be unsure of what to expect, and then that's half the battle right there. Meh the CR system is for beginners. Once you're comfortable, it can and should be abandoned, in my opinion. As for it taking more work to come up with a way for the big bad to threaten the PCs, I think this edition is easier. You just give it the stars you want. No need to "show your work"....+4 from bull's strength and +2 from divine favor and he's now large because of righteous might, so he gets another +4 and his weapon now does 2d8 instead of blah blah blah. 3E and it's derivatives were so dependent on all the numbers adding up. 5E is not like that. [/QUOTE]
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