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<blockquote data-quote="mpwylie" data-source="post: 6969015" data-attributes="member: 6802655"><p>To be clear, when I say returning players I do not mean players of 3.5 or 4 that still play and know all the rules. To me those are more like transitioning players, transitioning from recent editions to 5e. When I say returning players I am more referring to the people that played 1e/2e 20 years ago and though they have played D&D, they don't remember the rules and their expectations are of playing the game the way they played it 20 years ago. There is a stark difference between that type of returning player and the player that is transitioning from other editions. Those type of returning players are much more like new players. Yes they have played D&D, they may even remember enough to have some base expectations but for all intents and purposes they are a new player. So the base game is built is such a way as to be easy accessible to those players. It's fairly simple and easy to jump into. A quick reading of the starter set will give them the assumptions and flow and they can toss together a campaign using the base game without studying the books like it's the SATs and run a fine game. </p><p></p><p>The transitioning player is generally more versed in the rules of recent editions and they study the rules for 5e, they optimize and play at a much higher level. If the game was built out of the box targeted at that type of player it would not be accessible to those new and returning players. So they made the base game how they did to pull those folks back in and at the same time they gave the transitioning players the tools to tweak and fiddle and mold the game to their playstyle. The entire argument at this point seems to be a vocal group that wants the game built for their play-style because they don't want to play the base game but they also don't want to roll their sleeves up and design their game for their playstyle. They want out of the box monsters that are much more powerful to challenge their table with little to no work on their part and that they can run horribly and still be effective and when it doesn't work, they want to say that it is a design failing. What I am saying is that it is not a design failure, it is a DM failure. There may be a few tweaks that could be made to sand off the rough edges but they designed a game that works very well for their target, certainly nothing I would call "broken". And on this solid base it is very mold-able to fit for everyone from new players to seasoned professionals, from people that concentrate on combat to those that concentrate on other facets. Examine your playstyle, figure out how your style changes the base assumptions, then make the necessary adjustments to account for it. Expecting the game to be written for an individual playstyle is unreasonable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mpwylie, post: 6969015, member: 6802655"] To be clear, when I say returning players I do not mean players of 3.5 or 4 that still play and know all the rules. To me those are more like transitioning players, transitioning from recent editions to 5e. When I say returning players I am more referring to the people that played 1e/2e 20 years ago and though they have played D&D, they don't remember the rules and their expectations are of playing the game the way they played it 20 years ago. There is a stark difference between that type of returning player and the player that is transitioning from other editions. Those type of returning players are much more like new players. Yes they have played D&D, they may even remember enough to have some base expectations but for all intents and purposes they are a new player. So the base game is built is such a way as to be easy accessible to those players. It's fairly simple and easy to jump into. A quick reading of the starter set will give them the assumptions and flow and they can toss together a campaign using the base game without studying the books like it's the SATs and run a fine game. The transitioning player is generally more versed in the rules of recent editions and they study the rules for 5e, they optimize and play at a much higher level. If the game was built out of the box targeted at that type of player it would not be accessible to those new and returning players. So they made the base game how they did to pull those folks back in and at the same time they gave the transitioning players the tools to tweak and fiddle and mold the game to their playstyle. The entire argument at this point seems to be a vocal group that wants the game built for their play-style because they don't want to play the base game but they also don't want to roll their sleeves up and design their game for their playstyle. They want out of the box monsters that are much more powerful to challenge their table with little to no work on their part and that they can run horribly and still be effective and when it doesn't work, they want to say that it is a design failing. What I am saying is that it is not a design failure, it is a DM failure. There may be a few tweaks that could be made to sand off the rough edges but they designed a game that works very well for their target, certainly nothing I would call "broken". And on this solid base it is very mold-able to fit for everyone from new players to seasoned professionals, from people that concentrate on combat to those that concentrate on other facets. Examine your playstyle, figure out how your style changes the base assumptions, then make the necessary adjustments to account for it. Expecting the game to be written for an individual playstyle is unreasonable. [/QUOTE]
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