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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7700451" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, but I can see why you may have inferred that. My bad for not being clear enough or explaining myself more. The jist of it is this: A "campaign-oriented book" is going to be useful for everyone at the table because if it is in use, by the DM in particular, then (one would assume) the things being used are...well, useful for everyone. Feats, spells, rules, skills, whatever. If the DM says "Yes, all Feats other than the Water Delver one are in use". However, if a DM says "Nothing other than just the rules for the DM stuff is in use"...then yes, that would suck for players (and they would have every right to complain about it...or at least be given the reasons why the Feats, spells, etc aren't being used).</p><p></p><p>Now, what I *did* say, was I'd prefer books to be "focused". I have no problem with a "Book of Amazing Feats". If I don't want to use Feats in my game (which I don't), I don't have to buy the book. I have no problem with a "Book of In-Depth Skills". Again, I can just not buy it. However, <em>MY</em> ideal book wouldn't be one that focuses primarily on "player stuff"...but one that focuses on a "theme" (e.g., Dungeoneers Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, etc). But, I will admit, I am bias as I have only DM'ed 5e. I'm a DM, not a Player.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure I'm really following you here. I didn't "just decide by fiat"...at least in the "arbitrary" aspect of what that word means. Our first 5e 'campaign' was Starter Set, with no feats. This was a group decision. Next campaign was with the PHB. I tried to say "lets use feats this time"...but was actually 'out voted' by the players. So...no Feats. Next campaign, I did decide "Lets use Feats, MC'ing, and most of the other 'optional stuff' presented in the system". Everyone agreed. We didn't like it. I didn't like it. My players didn't like it. Next campaign was much the same, but slightly modified (you had to take an ASI/Feat, then the next time you were eligible you had to take the opposite of what you did last time...so Feat/ASI...etc). Last few mini-campaigns? No Feats no MC'ing because I don't like them at all...and my players pretty much agree with me, so no harm, no foul.</p><p></p><p>Now, as for "try the material"...if you are referring to the PF stuff I was talking about? I guess I'm guilty as charged. However, I know what I like and I know what I don't like. I also know RPG's, "well". I am pretty damn good at looking at an RPG's design and seeing stuff I think is just out right 'bad', and definitely stuff I'm not likely to enjoy. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But...the DM <em>does know best</em>. At least for his campaign. I'm not going to do something I dislike for 5 hours a week, every week, for years upon years. I am willing to compromise. And I'm hoping that's what you were getting at. I do compromise when my players really want something (or don't), and it's not completely going to ruin my enjoyment.</p><p></p><p>I respect my players...because they are all decades long friends (or my wife). I'm there, not "for" them, but "with" them. We all enjoy playing together. Even when my DM style or preference clashes with the groups. When that happens, we...<em>compromise</em>. They do present their case, so to speak, and I listen. I think about how it would affect the campaign world FIRST...and their "immediate gratification" SECOND. And, you know what? Nine times out of ten it works out for everyone. That other one in ten? That's where we revisit a few sessions later and I, or they, or him/her, brings up "this sucks...lets not do that", and we change/drop it. Not very democratic, but if one person in the group really <em>really</em> has a problem with something, we'll acquiesce to their desire <em>almost</em> every time.</p><p></p><p>I've been DM'ing for decades...mostly with this group. We all pretty much like the same "style" of gaming. But when someone finds something they think will be fun to try, and I'm not keen on it, we bring it up during the beginning of a session and do a quick "pro/con". Sometimes we give it a go, sometimes we just say no, other times it's on a singular "trial basis" for that one player.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, long story short...'ish... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ...you don't know me or my friends. We have been playing together (more or less with each other) for somewhere between 20'ish and 30+'ish years. I/we don't play very often with others, and maybe that's narrowed our view of "what is cool/fun/acceptable" nowadays...but screw it. We're all getting long in the tooth (the baby of the group is turning 37? in a month or so), and we just don't have the energy to care. We like what we like, we all know how one another likes to play, we all accept each other...smooth beauty and ugly warts and everything in between. It works for us. Maybe not you, but us.</p><p></p><p>"Book of Feats"? Sure. I can just not buy it. "Dungeoneers Survival Guide 5e"? Hellz yeah! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Game on!</p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 7700451, member: 45197"] Hiya. No, but I can see why you may have inferred that. My bad for not being clear enough or explaining myself more. The jist of it is this: A "campaign-oriented book" is going to be useful for everyone at the table because if it is in use, by the DM in particular, then (one would assume) the things being used are...well, useful for everyone. Feats, spells, rules, skills, whatever. If the DM says "Yes, all Feats other than the Water Delver one are in use". However, if a DM says "Nothing other than just the rules for the DM stuff is in use"...then yes, that would suck for players (and they would have every right to complain about it...or at least be given the reasons why the Feats, spells, etc aren't being used). Now, what I *did* say, was I'd prefer books to be "focused". I have no problem with a "Book of Amazing Feats". If I don't want to use Feats in my game (which I don't), I don't have to buy the book. I have no problem with a "Book of In-Depth Skills". Again, I can just not buy it. However, [I]MY[/I] ideal book wouldn't be one that focuses primarily on "player stuff"...but one that focuses on a "theme" (e.g., Dungeoneers Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, etc). But, I will admit, I am bias as I have only DM'ed 5e. I'm a DM, not a Player. I'm not sure I'm really following you here. I didn't "just decide by fiat"...at least in the "arbitrary" aspect of what that word means. Our first 5e 'campaign' was Starter Set, with no feats. This was a group decision. Next campaign was with the PHB. I tried to say "lets use feats this time"...but was actually 'out voted' by the players. So...no Feats. Next campaign, I did decide "Lets use Feats, MC'ing, and most of the other 'optional stuff' presented in the system". Everyone agreed. We didn't like it. I didn't like it. My players didn't like it. Next campaign was much the same, but slightly modified (you had to take an ASI/Feat, then the next time you were eligible you had to take the opposite of what you did last time...so Feat/ASI...etc). Last few mini-campaigns? No Feats no MC'ing because I don't like them at all...and my players pretty much agree with me, so no harm, no foul. Now, as for "try the material"...if you are referring to the PF stuff I was talking about? I guess I'm guilty as charged. However, I know what I like and I know what I don't like. I also know RPG's, "well". I am pretty damn good at looking at an RPG's design and seeing stuff I think is just out right 'bad', and definitely stuff I'm not likely to enjoy. But...the DM [I]does know best[/I]. At least for his campaign. I'm not going to do something I dislike for 5 hours a week, every week, for years upon years. I am willing to compromise. And I'm hoping that's what you were getting at. I do compromise when my players really want something (or don't), and it's not completely going to ruin my enjoyment. I respect my players...because they are all decades long friends (or my wife). I'm there, not "for" them, but "with" them. We all enjoy playing together. Even when my DM style or preference clashes with the groups. When that happens, we...[I]compromise[/I]. They do present their case, so to speak, and I listen. I think about how it would affect the campaign world FIRST...and their "immediate gratification" SECOND. And, you know what? Nine times out of ten it works out for everyone. That other one in ten? That's where we revisit a few sessions later and I, or they, or him/her, brings up "this sucks...lets not do that", and we change/drop it. Not very democratic, but if one person in the group really [I]really[/I] has a problem with something, we'll acquiesce to their desire [I]almost[/I] every time. I've been DM'ing for decades...mostly with this group. We all pretty much like the same "style" of gaming. But when someone finds something they think will be fun to try, and I'm not keen on it, we bring it up during the beginning of a session and do a quick "pro/con". Sometimes we give it a go, sometimes we just say no, other times it's on a singular "trial basis" for that one player. Anyway, long story short...'ish... ;) ...you don't know me or my friends. We have been playing together (more or less with each other) for somewhere between 20'ish and 30+'ish years. I/we don't play very often with others, and maybe that's narrowed our view of "what is cool/fun/acceptable" nowadays...but screw it. We're all getting long in the tooth (the baby of the group is turning 37? in a month or so), and we just don't have the energy to care. We like what we like, we all know how one another likes to play, we all accept each other...smooth beauty and ugly warts and everything in between. It works for us. Maybe not you, but us. "Book of Feats"? Sure. I can just not buy it. "Dungeoneers Survival Guide 5e"? Hellz yeah! :) Game on! ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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