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Legends and Lore 11/22/2011 - A Different Way to Slice the Pie
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5736103" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>I'm going back and forth on what Monte's talking about, because I really can't determine just what types of rules he is referring to when he talks about attaching their arrival into the game to PC level.</p><p></p><p>There are a lot of rules 'under the hood' as it were... that sure, not having them appear until certain points in the game make sense, but those are directly tied to PC powers or monster statblocks that come from Level Up. For example, certain status conditions like Weakened or Stunned... Vulnerabilities and Resistances... power keywords like Reliable, Rattling, Zones, or Aftereffects... those kinds of thing I'd have no problem with them not appearing until certain points, because the wouldn't get used until such time as the PC powers or the higher-level monsters that have them, actually begin to appear in game.</p><p></p><p>But rules that directly affect character action that aren't connected to things you gain as part of the leveling process? OAs, Grab, Combat Advantage, certain uses of Skills, Running (just choosing a bunch of these rules that Monte is possibly talking about?) For generic abilities like these... I wouldn't <em>want</em> to have an arbitrary level assigned to them when they suddenly just 'show up' in the game. If the rule is good enough to use later... it's good enough to use at the beginning, assuming the DM is comfortable using it. Let ME as the DM decide whether or not Opportunity Attacks should be a part of the game. Don't turn it into a gained level ability when there's no reason to. </p><p></p><p>Make those rules part of the 'complexity module' concept that Mearls' talked about in his Legends & Lore column months ago. So all the 'extra' combat maneuvers like OA, Grab, Bull Rush, Charge, Escape, Crawl etc. could be its own module that the DM could choose to add to his game or not. But that would be a decision he <em>could</em> make at the START of the game... not at some random point in the campaign just because the designers wanted to keep the early game easier.</p><p></p><p>At the very least... if WotC really wants to make an 'easier' beginning game... then I'd greatly suggest doing exactly what I mentioned in my New 5E Tiers System thread over in General. Create a specific STARTER SET introductory Tier. Designate Levels 1-3 or 1-5 or whatever as the BASIC GAME, and only include those rules meant for beginning players. But once the next Tier opens up... all complexity tied to character action should immediately open up to EVERYBODY as well. Make the CHANGE IN TIERS be really important in that way. But for goodness sake... don't have game rules arrive in dribs and drabs each and every level, especially when there's no good reason why they arbitrarily show up.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 5736103, member: 7006"] I'm going back and forth on what Monte's talking about, because I really can't determine just what types of rules he is referring to when he talks about attaching their arrival into the game to PC level. There are a lot of rules 'under the hood' as it were... that sure, not having them appear until certain points in the game make sense, but those are directly tied to PC powers or monster statblocks that come from Level Up. For example, certain status conditions like Weakened or Stunned... Vulnerabilities and Resistances... power keywords like Reliable, Rattling, Zones, or Aftereffects... those kinds of thing I'd have no problem with them not appearing until certain points, because the wouldn't get used until such time as the PC powers or the higher-level monsters that have them, actually begin to appear in game. But rules that directly affect character action that aren't connected to things you gain as part of the leveling process? OAs, Grab, Combat Advantage, certain uses of Skills, Running (just choosing a bunch of these rules that Monte is possibly talking about?) For generic abilities like these... I wouldn't [I]want[/I] to have an arbitrary level assigned to them when they suddenly just 'show up' in the game. If the rule is good enough to use later... it's good enough to use at the beginning, assuming the DM is comfortable using it. Let ME as the DM decide whether or not Opportunity Attacks should be a part of the game. Don't turn it into a gained level ability when there's no reason to. Make those rules part of the 'complexity module' concept that Mearls' talked about in his Legends & Lore column months ago. So all the 'extra' combat maneuvers like OA, Grab, Bull Rush, Charge, Escape, Crawl etc. could be its own module that the DM could choose to add to his game or not. But that would be a decision he [I]could[/I] make at the START of the game... not at some random point in the campaign just because the designers wanted to keep the early game easier. At the very least... if WotC really wants to make an 'easier' beginning game... then I'd greatly suggest doing exactly what I mentioned in my New 5E Tiers System thread over in General. Create a specific STARTER SET introductory Tier. Designate Levels 1-3 or 1-5 or whatever as the BASIC GAME, and only include those rules meant for beginning players. But once the next Tier opens up... all complexity tied to character action should immediately open up to EVERYBODY as well. Make the CHANGE IN TIERS be really important in that way. But for goodness sake... don't have game rules arrive in dribs and drabs each and every level, especially when there's no good reason why they arbitrarily show up. [/QUOTE]
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