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Legends & Lore 03.10.2014: Full-spellcasting Bard
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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6276854" data-attributes="member: 2525"><p>First, I can push you with my hands and it's not magical but it is controlling where you move, and some (many) powers did just that. The thing I was responding to was "powers" and not a sub-category of "non-mundane powers used to control someone". So, it doesn't have to be magic to control you, and we had lots of push mechanics in the game prior to 4th edition. If you want to complain about some specific powers without making it about powers in general, go on with your bad self, but that's a different topic than what I was responding to.</p><p></p><p>Second, Magic sword = magic. Magic potion = magic. Magic trap = magic. Calling something magic is not the same as calling something a spell. </p><p></p><p>So, not a strawman at all (and poor use of that phrase - I am absolutely replying to the argument being made and not an easier argument that was not made). </p><p></p><p>A spell involves a different game space, and play style, than simply "powers". Powers cover a great deal more territory than simply magic, and magic covers a great deal more territory than spells. Spells are far more specific. They cover mechanics for memorization, for spell slots, for research and study, for reading and deciphering them, for breaking concentration of them, for selling and creating them, for creating entirely new types of them not found in any game books, for saving throws from them, for imbuing them in magic items and making magic items with them, for resistance to them, for immunity to them, for Gods that grant them, and even for how different alignments interact with them. </p><p></p><p>This is a different space in the game rules, and a different style of play, than "powers". Spells are not a replacement for powers, and giving a class more spells is not the same (or even particularly similar) to giving a class powers. They can have one without the other, and the two are quite different from each other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 6276854, member: 2525"] First, I can push you with my hands and it's not magical but it is controlling where you move, and some (many) powers did just that. The thing I was responding to was "powers" and not a sub-category of "non-mundane powers used to control someone". So, it doesn't have to be magic to control you, and we had lots of push mechanics in the game prior to 4th edition. If you want to complain about some specific powers without making it about powers in general, go on with your bad self, but that's a different topic than what I was responding to. Second, Magic sword = magic. Magic potion = magic. Magic trap = magic. Calling something magic is not the same as calling something a spell. So, not a strawman at all (and poor use of that phrase - I am absolutely replying to the argument being made and not an easier argument that was not made). A spell involves a different game space, and play style, than simply "powers". Powers cover a great deal more territory than simply magic, and magic covers a great deal more territory than spells. Spells are far more specific. They cover mechanics for memorization, for spell slots, for research and study, for reading and deciphering them, for breaking concentration of them, for selling and creating them, for creating entirely new types of them not found in any game books, for saving throws from them, for imbuing them in magic items and making magic items with them, for resistance to them, for immunity to them, for Gods that grant them, and even for how different alignments interact with them. This is a different space in the game rules, and a different style of play, than "powers". Spells are not a replacement for powers, and giving a class more spells is not the same (or even particularly similar) to giving a class powers. They can have one without the other, and the two are quite different from each other. [/QUOTE]
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