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<blockquote data-quote="Vyvyan Basterd" data-source="post: 6113678" data-attributes="member: 4892"><p>You're saying exactly what I reacted to. Acererak in my example does not remain a menace just for other adventurers to handle. He is a menace that affects the world that the PCs are a part of. They could continue to ignore the menace but face in-game consequences. And saying that ACTION only occurs around the PCs is the break in verisimilitude I'm speaking to. That break is OK in some people's minds, but others aren't. I don't get that attitude.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's this pass/fail mentality of D&D to date that stifles cinematic-style play. When recently explaining to a friend how Marvel Heroic Roleplaying worked, he was concerned that cinematic style was called for, but would be squashed by pass/fail rules. His example, sliding down the staircase on a shield while firing a bow in the LotR movie, in D&D terms under most DMs would probably invovle a difficult Acrobatics (or whatever) DC for some small bonus. While failure would leave you injured and prone, success might get you +2 to hit! Joy.</p><p></p><p>In MHRP the Grand Staircase would be a Scene Distiction. You could model that slide down the staircase two ways. You could add the distiction as a bonus for your bewildering slide down the stairs. No downside, just using a cinematic trope instead of just firing your bow again. Next the dwarf could add the disctinction as a downside, stating that his stubby legs make it difficult to charge down the steep staircase. He takes a risk by adding a negative, but gets a plot point for imposing the downside on himself.</p><p></p><p>The game can be built as such that players have choices. </p><p></p><p>And THERE'S the DM entitlement. Why? Are you afraid they'll always take advantage? Are you afraid they'll get a bonus die that helps them succeed? Are you afraid that by having no wasted attempts is going to ruin your monsters plans? Are you afraid their halfling fighter with a 16 strength wants to use the push rules to run between the ogre's legs to trip him up and have him stumble into the campfire?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's ONLY realistic if you narrowly define Bull Rush as literally pushing an enemy with brute force. If you allow more narritive freedom you can use Bull Rush as a general rule without having to tack on psuedo-realism. And let's be honest, no one really know how tough it is to push a giant, so who can say +8 is any more realistic than +0?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Mine come for rulings. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This strikes me a DM afraid to share control. I don't think anyone here is advocating "anything goes" style play, no matter how many people accuse others of wanting that. Sharing control allows for an expansion of ideas. It doesn't take a DM that abuses a players' trust to create unsatisfactory results. Different people have different expectations. Back in 1E I certainly was dissapointed that my attempt to cross body block the wolfwere after all but the wizard's magic quarterstaff bounced off its hide was met with a roll to hit that even with success did virtually nothing to stop the wolfwere from attacking the wizard instead of being occupied by the ranger laying on his chest. That DM and I had different expectations of how that would pan out, I was disappointed, but I don't think he was being a jerk.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Vyvyan Basterd, post: 6113678, member: 4892"] You're saying exactly what I reacted to. Acererak in my example does not remain a menace just for other adventurers to handle. He is a menace that affects the world that the PCs are a part of. They could continue to ignore the menace but face in-game consequences. And saying that ACTION only occurs around the PCs is the break in verisimilitude I'm speaking to. That break is OK in some people's minds, but others aren't. I don't get that attitude. It's this pass/fail mentality of D&D to date that stifles cinematic-style play. When recently explaining to a friend how Marvel Heroic Roleplaying worked, he was concerned that cinematic style was called for, but would be squashed by pass/fail rules. His example, sliding down the staircase on a shield while firing a bow in the LotR movie, in D&D terms under most DMs would probably invovle a difficult Acrobatics (or whatever) DC for some small bonus. While failure would leave you injured and prone, success might get you +2 to hit! Joy. In MHRP the Grand Staircase would be a Scene Distiction. You could model that slide down the staircase two ways. You could add the distiction as a bonus for your bewildering slide down the stairs. No downside, just using a cinematic trope instead of just firing your bow again. Next the dwarf could add the disctinction as a downside, stating that his stubby legs make it difficult to charge down the steep staircase. He takes a risk by adding a negative, but gets a plot point for imposing the downside on himself. The game can be built as such that players have choices. And THERE'S the DM entitlement. Why? Are you afraid they'll always take advantage? Are you afraid they'll get a bonus die that helps them succeed? Are you afraid that by having no wasted attempts is going to ruin your monsters plans? Are you afraid their halfling fighter with a 16 strength wants to use the push rules to run between the ogre's legs to trip him up and have him stumble into the campfire? It's ONLY realistic if you narrowly define Bull Rush as literally pushing an enemy with brute force. If you allow more narritive freedom you can use Bull Rush as a general rule without having to tack on psuedo-realism. And let's be honest, no one really know how tough it is to push a giant, so who can say +8 is any more realistic than +0? Mine come for rulings. :) This strikes me a DM afraid to share control. I don't think anyone here is advocating "anything goes" style play, no matter how many people accuse others of wanting that. Sharing control allows for an expansion of ideas. It doesn't take a DM that abuses a players' trust to create unsatisfactory results. Different people have different expectations. Back in 1E I certainly was dissapointed that my attempt to cross body block the wolfwere after all but the wizard's magic quarterstaff bounced off its hide was met with a roll to hit that even with success did virtually nothing to stop the wolfwere from attacking the wizard instead of being occupied by the ranger laying on his chest. That DM and I had different expectations of how that would pan out, I was disappointed, but I don't think he was being a jerk. [/QUOTE]
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