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Lets design a Warlord for 5th edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7380310" data-attributes="member: 6716779"><p>I know but Mearls and co did not put at will action granting in for a reason.</p><p></p><p> I am not opposed to the Battlemaster fighter abilities I have seen a few of them in action including the BM+ Rogue combo, I have also seen the Noble in action. </p><p></p><p>I'm going with the 6-8 encounters per day expectation of 5E and even if each encounter is 3 rounds that is 18024 rounds of combat (4 rounds makes it 24-32 rounds of combat). A Battlemaster can only grant 33-50% of that assuming they get 2 short rests. Changing it to 100% at will that has no drawbacks like haste, can't be interupted and can be moved around each round is a kind of comparable IMHO (yes I know they do not get the +2 AC or movement part). And when do people want to get at will action granting on a potential warlord which is comparable to a mid to high level Sorcerer devoting everything to it and they expect to be able to do other stuff as well?</p><p></p><p>A 10th level Sorcerer can cast haste every round and have enough sorcery points to twin it 3 times. </p><p></p><p> I am fine with a Warlord with a bless ability and a non magical version of it already appears on the NPC Knight and would make a good short rest "invocation" IMHO for a warlord. Or a subclass ability (Bravura or Inspirational perhaps).</p><p></p><p> It gets back to what else you want on the chassis I suppose. You want to bless and heal and grant attacks (dealing way more damage than the other support characters). </p><p></p><p> My concept tactical warlord i linked to does get Battlemaster dice and if they focused on at will attack granting (3 invocations) they could grant around 8 attacks a short rest which would be creeping up to a lot of attacks but they would have to focus on it just like the Sorcerer focusing on haste. I'm also not opposed to a Tactical Warlord picking up an extra dice or 2 over the BM fighter. 6 or 7 BM dice and 2 "invocations" gives you a lot of attacks but would require some resources spent on it. If you want to deal fighter level damage with your warlord play the Battlemaster and take the healer+ inspirational leader feats. Not every warlord will want to do attack granting anyway it was not baked in in 4E merely an option and in 4E they defined a basic attack which was worse than your normal attacks so the opportunity cost was not so great (until you had essentials and various magic items that buff basic attacks). </p><p></p><p> Its to good for a low level at will ability compared with any other at will ability (cha to damage eldritch blast, duelist or TWF combat style). Clerics for example have to wait until level 8 to pick up a single dice of damage (1d8+1d6+ability mod vs 1d8+4d6+4 or 5 via Rogue). Sure clerics can do more damage via spells and buffing but so can a warlord with invocations or battlemaster dice+ some attack granting invocations+ riders. Even without Rogues you still have things like hunter rangers, hex/hunters quarry, rage, smites, and the -5/+10 feats to worry about as well. Its probably a level 11 minimum ability (comparing to the opportunity cost of a fighter and their 3 attacks and I assume the WL can do other stuff instead of fighter stuff).</p><p></p><p> What you're really demanding is striker level damage on a leader chassis and that would not fly in 4E either. </p><p></p><p> I'm only objecting to at will attack granting for free assuming of course we write some invocations and/or settle on a healing rate (which I will post some thoughts soon).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zardnaar, post: 7380310, member: 6716779"] I know but Mearls and co did not put at will action granting in for a reason. I am not opposed to the Battlemaster fighter abilities I have seen a few of them in action including the BM+ Rogue combo, I have also seen the Noble in action. I'm going with the 6-8 encounters per day expectation of 5E and even if each encounter is 3 rounds that is 18024 rounds of combat (4 rounds makes it 24-32 rounds of combat). A Battlemaster can only grant 33-50% of that assuming they get 2 short rests. Changing it to 100% at will that has no drawbacks like haste, can't be interupted and can be moved around each round is a kind of comparable IMHO (yes I know they do not get the +2 AC or movement part). And when do people want to get at will action granting on a potential warlord which is comparable to a mid to high level Sorcerer devoting everything to it and they expect to be able to do other stuff as well? A 10th level Sorcerer can cast haste every round and have enough sorcery points to twin it 3 times. I am fine with a Warlord with a bless ability and a non magical version of it already appears on the NPC Knight and would make a good short rest "invocation" IMHO for a warlord. Or a subclass ability (Bravura or Inspirational perhaps). It gets back to what else you want on the chassis I suppose. You want to bless and heal and grant attacks (dealing way more damage than the other support characters). My concept tactical warlord i linked to does get Battlemaster dice and if they focused on at will attack granting (3 invocations) they could grant around 8 attacks a short rest which would be creeping up to a lot of attacks but they would have to focus on it just like the Sorcerer focusing on haste. I'm also not opposed to a Tactical Warlord picking up an extra dice or 2 over the BM fighter. 6 or 7 BM dice and 2 "invocations" gives you a lot of attacks but would require some resources spent on it. If you want to deal fighter level damage with your warlord play the Battlemaster and take the healer+ inspirational leader feats. Not every warlord will want to do attack granting anyway it was not baked in in 4E merely an option and in 4E they defined a basic attack which was worse than your normal attacks so the opportunity cost was not so great (until you had essentials and various magic items that buff basic attacks). Its to good for a low level at will ability compared with any other at will ability (cha to damage eldritch blast, duelist or TWF combat style). Clerics for example have to wait until level 8 to pick up a single dice of damage (1d8+1d6+ability mod vs 1d8+4d6+4 or 5 via Rogue). Sure clerics can do more damage via spells and buffing but so can a warlord with invocations or battlemaster dice+ some attack granting invocations+ riders. Even without Rogues you still have things like hunter rangers, hex/hunters quarry, rage, smites, and the -5/+10 feats to worry about as well. Its probably a level 11 minimum ability (comparing to the opportunity cost of a fighter and their 3 attacks and I assume the WL can do other stuff instead of fighter stuff). What you're really demanding is striker level damage on a leader chassis and that would not fly in 4E either. I'm only objecting to at will attack granting for free assuming of course we write some invocations and/or settle on a healing rate (which I will post some thoughts soon). [/QUOTE]
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