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Lets design a Warlord for 5th edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7380328" data-attributes="member: 6716779"><p>Warlord Conceptually</p><p></p><p> Well I think we all agree on the basic warlord, 1d8 HD, martial weapons, medium armor, probably fighter saving throws (con_+str).</p><p></p><p> I think we all agree that they get a healing word ability at level 1. This is because its a support character and all WL in 4E had a healing ability. healing surges are not in 5E. In the other thread someone had the idea of bestow 2nd wind, I really like that idea.</p><p></p><p>The Warlord at level 1 also needs around 2 other minor abilities to be comparable to a cleric. A Bravura one for example could get heavy armor+ a combat style and the inspiring and tactical ones you could update the 4E abilites (int to initiative, cha to hp regained) + give them a little something extra.</p><p></p><p>"Healing Word"</p><p>Bonus action 1d8+ warlord level. </p><p></p><p>Compared with a cleric who can cast two level 1 spells we can make some comparisons. Assuming you get 2 short rests you are a bit better at healing than a cleric using cure wounds and you can do it s a bonus action. However you may not get two short rests and a cleric can use those spell slots on something else so six of one half dozen of the other. At level 2 however the cleric pulls out a head and level 3 with prayer of healing and more spell slots the cleric is a lot better at healing.</p><p></p><p> So far the hypothetical warlord at level 1 gets to play in the same ball park. Sometimes the cleric is better, sometimes the warlord is better I think that is a good place to be. </p><p></p><p> Level 2 Clerics get a nice upgrade to channel divinity. Hypothetical warlord doesn't get that. Hit dice based healing I have tried in my concept builds and the only way I could kind of make it work was have the warlord grant bonus hit dice independent of the actual hit dice. This was a bit more complicated and is harder to evaluate as people sometimes have multiclass HP and vs a clerics healing its hard to know as the rough amount healed can vary by class. Making the warlord grant second wind ability a d8 brings it into line with its hit dice and the d8's cleric healing spells have used since around 1E. Nice and simple and the HD scale with level like the other martial healing in the game. </p><p></p><p> Now the problem martial healing has is it does not scale that well, second wind rapidly goes from useful to cute its better than nothing I suppose. I propose the the Warlrods ability scales with level and more uses the same as cantrips. This is to make up for the Warlord not getting spell slots like the cleric. This means they get an additional use per short rest at 5,11,17 and each used is 1d8+5,+11, or+17 as well. Note this is still lower than a cleric using a few spells to heal even when the warlord can use that ability 12 times at level 17. However it also makes getting from level 1 to 5 difficult and it is a long time for a single use/short rest ability to cover. Especially when the cleric is picking up more spell slots. We don't want to obsolete the cleric but as I said same ball park is the goal.</p><p></p><p> Right now we do not have anything for a level 2 ability but something nice and short rest related is probably good. Clerics for example get domain abilities, fighters get action surge, and Moon Druids are Moon Druids (read OP). An obvious one is grant action surge which I like but might be a bit to good at this level and steals some thunder from the fighter as you are kind of getting a better ability as well as you can grant that action surge to a spellcaster for example. Not a bad idea but a bit early IMHO.</p><p></p><p> Looking at the light and life clerics they have some interesting and powerful abilities. And our Warlord needs a bit more healing to go around. Turning the Light Clerics radiance of the dawn ability into healing instead of damage we can also lower the d10's to d8's. Situational its better than a life clerics heal ability we now have 2d8+level 30' to allies that refreshes on a short rest. Right now Mr Warlord is healing better than a cleric (except life)but its the apex of the Warlords healing ability. This is also only brainstorming but perhaps if the Moon Druid peaks with wildshape at level 2 the warlord can be the same at healing. I'll call this ability healing surge as a nod to 4E. The warlord still lacks spell slots and if we go with invocations the warlord picks up something interesting there. So far good at healing, 2 subclass abilities and perhaps good at healing, not everyone on this thread may want healing at level 2 but without spell slots the warlord needs something and level 3,4,5 I think are already taken. Following the warlock pattern you also get 2 invocations (we need to write some low level ones) and the warlords healing and level 1 abilities have replaced the warlocks and clerics spells onto level 3.</p><p></p><p> Level 3 is where I think our Warlord can start coming together. 5E is also full of examples we can use from level 3 fighters, through to bard dice, 1/3rd casting, battlemaster dice, and the Mastermind Rogues advantage granting thing all come online. We don't have to follow those examples exactly but its roughly where a 3rd level warlord can perhaps resemble a 4E one more. My rough idea here is a tactical one gets battlemaster dice, an inspiring one gets bard dice, and a Bravura one perhaps gets the mastermind advantage granting thing (perhaps situational such as connecting with an attack). With 2 invocations, subclass abilities and something like dice poolsyou are not to far off a 4E low level warlord and 3rd level is where you leave the apprentice levels behind. For the most part I was recycling other class abilities as 5E has numerous examples of this already from spells, class features through to things like lore bard. Is my inspiring warlord that drastically different from a valor bard? Well you can heal better, fight better, and do 2 cool things with your "invocations" and you get the bardic dice (or battlemaster dice for the tactical one). The conceptual magical 1/3rd caster warlord also fits in here so I think level 3 is a good place to look at that. Martial healing also scales. This leads us to level 4.</p><p></p><p>Level 4 is very basic and boring in 5E. Its an ASI. On to level 5. Martial healing scales however.</p><p></p><p>Level 5 in general is a big power up in 5E. Level 3 spells arrive along with 2nd attacks for martial. Now I think we can give the warlord a kick ass ability. You pick up a 3rd invocation guess we will have to create them the Bravura one is easy (2nd attack). A warlock however picks up a real ability however as they get level 3 spells and an invocation. This leads me to something decent and short rest based, perhaps the grant an action idea from earlier. Martial healing scales twice and you pick up a 2nd use of inspiring word here. </p><p>Your short rest healing is now.</p><p></p><p>1d8+5 X 2 (+ charisma bonus for inspiring WL) bonus action "healing/inspirational word".</p><p>2d8+5 30' standard action healing surge</p><p></p><p> Checking my notes its 2 targets for inspirational word, this was before I tweaked the healing earlier and added "healing surge" and the warlord actually has a decent amount of healing ATM (to good perhaps IDK). Maybe shift this ability to an invocation if a WL wants to focus on healing but we have room for a kick ass ability here comparable to a level 2.5 spell slot (or two of them) IMHO (a nerfed haste IDK).</p><p></p><p> Level 6 The cleric gets an upgrade and being a martial character you can perhaps pick up an ASI either here or at level 10 a'la Fighter or Rogue. Open to suggestions here but we can have another powerful option here such as an ASI, feat or something comparable to level 3 spells, Paladins Aura or stealing spells from another class. Most classes get something nice here Moon Druids for example get wildshape scaling (CR2). Clerics get an additional use of their domain power and a domain feature. To me this means subclass ability (whatever that is), and an extra use of "healing surge". Your healing rate is now.</p><p></p><p>1d8+6 X 2 (+ charisma bonus for inspiring WL) bonus action "healing/inspirational word".</p><p>2d8+6 30' X2 standard action healing surge.</p><p></p><p> Well that is what I have so far for theory crafting a warlord. The 1st 4 levels I think are easy and if people want to do the invocation/exploit/gambit/powers thing obviously we would need to write some along with a generic level 5 ability+ a subclass ability for level 6. Generally I think the class should focus on at will and short rest abilities (whatever they end up being) along with using the bonus action.</p><p></p><p> To tie it back to numerous posts about at will action granting a lot of the suggested abilities outside the action granting (healing for example) have been below par for what I consider a support character should do. Low level buffs can be single target grant attack+rider type effects with upgraded versions either being more powerful, bonus actions or effects multiple people. For example you could grant an attack with advantage perhaps as bonus action short rest ability, a few levels later you can effect two people, 4 levels later the whole party and 4 levels after that you grant an action surge to everyone in the party. You may not be able to cast foresight you can grant an action surge to everyone that refreshes on a short rest, not a bad trade off for a 9th level spell slot you can't cast. </p><p></p><p> Instead of hasting someone at level 5 why not grant an attack (or cast a cantrip)to everyone in the party (once) and since spell casters get 2 spell slots lvl 5 you get to refresh it on a short rest (3 uses vs 2). That is your warlord fireball or nova IMHO. This means the rogue can sneak attack multiple times, the fighter gets an extra attack. Your level 18 warlord is letting the spellcasters drop 2 spells (one a cantrip), the fighter gets 3 extra attacks, the Ranger/Barbarian/Paladin 2 and if its a bonus action the warlord can still have his attack (an arcane one can cast green flame blade).</p><p></p><p>5E mechanics one can borrow.</p><p></p><p>Granting Advantage</p><p>Granting action surge</p><p>Granting second wind</p><p>1/3rd casting</p><p>Combat style</p><p>ability mod to damage (int)</p><p>charisma to something (saves, checks)</p><p>non magical 1d4 guidance</p><p>Non magical bless effect a'la NPC Knights</p><p>Non magical smites (hit em where it hurts)</p><p>1/3rd casters can have outright magical invocations and subclass features (Jedi mind tricks, come and get it, etc) plus spells or additional magical healing (restoration, regeneration, raise dead etc)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zardnaar, post: 7380328, member: 6716779"] Warlord Conceptually Well I think we all agree on the basic warlord, 1d8 HD, martial weapons, medium armor, probably fighter saving throws (con_+str). I think we all agree that they get a healing word ability at level 1. This is because its a support character and all WL in 4E had a healing ability. healing surges are not in 5E. In the other thread someone had the idea of bestow 2nd wind, I really like that idea. The Warlord at level 1 also needs around 2 other minor abilities to be comparable to a cleric. A Bravura one for example could get heavy armor+ a combat style and the inspiring and tactical ones you could update the 4E abilites (int to initiative, cha to hp regained) + give them a little something extra. "Healing Word" Bonus action 1d8+ warlord level. Compared with a cleric who can cast two level 1 spells we can make some comparisons. Assuming you get 2 short rests you are a bit better at healing than a cleric using cure wounds and you can do it s a bonus action. However you may not get two short rests and a cleric can use those spell slots on something else so six of one half dozen of the other. At level 2 however the cleric pulls out a head and level 3 with prayer of healing and more spell slots the cleric is a lot better at healing. So far the hypothetical warlord at level 1 gets to play in the same ball park. Sometimes the cleric is better, sometimes the warlord is better I think that is a good place to be. Level 2 Clerics get a nice upgrade to channel divinity. Hypothetical warlord doesn't get that. Hit dice based healing I have tried in my concept builds and the only way I could kind of make it work was have the warlord grant bonus hit dice independent of the actual hit dice. This was a bit more complicated and is harder to evaluate as people sometimes have multiclass HP and vs a clerics healing its hard to know as the rough amount healed can vary by class. Making the warlord grant second wind ability a d8 brings it into line with its hit dice and the d8's cleric healing spells have used since around 1E. Nice and simple and the HD scale with level like the other martial healing in the game. Now the problem martial healing has is it does not scale that well, second wind rapidly goes from useful to cute its better than nothing I suppose. I propose the the Warlrods ability scales with level and more uses the same as cantrips. This is to make up for the Warlord not getting spell slots like the cleric. This means they get an additional use per short rest at 5,11,17 and each used is 1d8+5,+11, or+17 as well. Note this is still lower than a cleric using a few spells to heal even when the warlord can use that ability 12 times at level 17. However it also makes getting from level 1 to 5 difficult and it is a long time for a single use/short rest ability to cover. Especially when the cleric is picking up more spell slots. We don't want to obsolete the cleric but as I said same ball park is the goal. Right now we do not have anything for a level 2 ability but something nice and short rest related is probably good. Clerics for example get domain abilities, fighters get action surge, and Moon Druids are Moon Druids (read OP). An obvious one is grant action surge which I like but might be a bit to good at this level and steals some thunder from the fighter as you are kind of getting a better ability as well as you can grant that action surge to a spellcaster for example. Not a bad idea but a bit early IMHO. Looking at the light and life clerics they have some interesting and powerful abilities. And our Warlord needs a bit more healing to go around. Turning the Light Clerics radiance of the dawn ability into healing instead of damage we can also lower the d10's to d8's. Situational its better than a life clerics heal ability we now have 2d8+level 30' to allies that refreshes on a short rest. Right now Mr Warlord is healing better than a cleric (except life)but its the apex of the Warlords healing ability. This is also only brainstorming but perhaps if the Moon Druid peaks with wildshape at level 2 the warlord can be the same at healing. I'll call this ability healing surge as a nod to 4E. The warlord still lacks spell slots and if we go with invocations the warlord picks up something interesting there. So far good at healing, 2 subclass abilities and perhaps good at healing, not everyone on this thread may want healing at level 2 but without spell slots the warlord needs something and level 3,4,5 I think are already taken. Following the warlock pattern you also get 2 invocations (we need to write some low level ones) and the warlords healing and level 1 abilities have replaced the warlocks and clerics spells onto level 3. Level 3 is where I think our Warlord can start coming together. 5E is also full of examples we can use from level 3 fighters, through to bard dice, 1/3rd casting, battlemaster dice, and the Mastermind Rogues advantage granting thing all come online. We don't have to follow those examples exactly but its roughly where a 3rd level warlord can perhaps resemble a 4E one more. My rough idea here is a tactical one gets battlemaster dice, an inspiring one gets bard dice, and a Bravura one perhaps gets the mastermind advantage granting thing (perhaps situational such as connecting with an attack). With 2 invocations, subclass abilities and something like dice poolsyou are not to far off a 4E low level warlord and 3rd level is where you leave the apprentice levels behind. For the most part I was recycling other class abilities as 5E has numerous examples of this already from spells, class features through to things like lore bard. Is my inspiring warlord that drastically different from a valor bard? Well you can heal better, fight better, and do 2 cool things with your "invocations" and you get the bardic dice (or battlemaster dice for the tactical one). The conceptual magical 1/3rd caster warlord also fits in here so I think level 3 is a good place to look at that. Martial healing also scales. This leads us to level 4. Level 4 is very basic and boring in 5E. Its an ASI. On to level 5. Martial healing scales however. Level 5 in general is a big power up in 5E. Level 3 spells arrive along with 2nd attacks for martial. Now I think we can give the warlord a kick ass ability. You pick up a 3rd invocation guess we will have to create them the Bravura one is easy (2nd attack). A warlock however picks up a real ability however as they get level 3 spells and an invocation. This leads me to something decent and short rest based, perhaps the grant an action idea from earlier. Martial healing scales twice and you pick up a 2nd use of inspiring word here. Your short rest healing is now. 1d8+5 X 2 (+ charisma bonus for inspiring WL) bonus action "healing/inspirational word". 2d8+5 30' standard action healing surge Checking my notes its 2 targets for inspirational word, this was before I tweaked the healing earlier and added "healing surge" and the warlord actually has a decent amount of healing ATM (to good perhaps IDK). Maybe shift this ability to an invocation if a WL wants to focus on healing but we have room for a kick ass ability here comparable to a level 2.5 spell slot (or two of them) IMHO (a nerfed haste IDK). Level 6 The cleric gets an upgrade and being a martial character you can perhaps pick up an ASI either here or at level 10 a'la Fighter or Rogue. Open to suggestions here but we can have another powerful option here such as an ASI, feat or something comparable to level 3 spells, Paladins Aura or stealing spells from another class. Most classes get something nice here Moon Druids for example get wildshape scaling (CR2). Clerics get an additional use of their domain power and a domain feature. To me this means subclass ability (whatever that is), and an extra use of "healing surge". Your healing rate is now. 1d8+6 X 2 (+ charisma bonus for inspiring WL) bonus action "healing/inspirational word". 2d8+6 30' X2 standard action healing surge. Well that is what I have so far for theory crafting a warlord. The 1st 4 levels I think are easy and if people want to do the invocation/exploit/gambit/powers thing obviously we would need to write some along with a generic level 5 ability+ a subclass ability for level 6. Generally I think the class should focus on at will and short rest abilities (whatever they end up being) along with using the bonus action. To tie it back to numerous posts about at will action granting a lot of the suggested abilities outside the action granting (healing for example) have been below par for what I consider a support character should do. Low level buffs can be single target grant attack+rider type effects with upgraded versions either being more powerful, bonus actions or effects multiple people. For example you could grant an attack with advantage perhaps as bonus action short rest ability, a few levels later you can effect two people, 4 levels later the whole party and 4 levels after that you grant an action surge to everyone in the party. You may not be able to cast foresight you can grant an action surge to everyone that refreshes on a short rest, not a bad trade off for a 9th level spell slot you can't cast. Instead of hasting someone at level 5 why not grant an attack (or cast a cantrip)to everyone in the party (once) and since spell casters get 2 spell slots lvl 5 you get to refresh it on a short rest (3 uses vs 2). That is your warlord fireball or nova IMHO. This means the rogue can sneak attack multiple times, the fighter gets an extra attack. Your level 18 warlord is letting the spellcasters drop 2 spells (one a cantrip), the fighter gets 3 extra attacks, the Ranger/Barbarian/Paladin 2 and if its a bonus action the warlord can still have his attack (an arcane one can cast green flame blade). 5E mechanics one can borrow. Granting Advantage Granting action surge Granting second wind 1/3rd casting Combat style ability mod to damage (int) charisma to something (saves, checks) non magical 1d4 guidance Non magical bless effect a'la NPC Knights Non magical smites (hit em where it hurts) 1/3rd casters can have outright magical invocations and subclass features (Jedi mind tricks, come and get it, etc) plus spells or additional magical healing (restoration, regeneration, raise dead etc) [/QUOTE]
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Lets design a Warlord for 5th edition
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