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Line of Sight and Line of Effect
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<blockquote data-quote="Glitch13" data-source="post: 4301629" data-attributes="member: 69400"><p>From the PHB</p><p>Pg. 274 the picture of blocked line of sight that should not be blocked.</p><p>Pg. 280 Cover statement and picture: “A line isn’t blocked if it runs along the edge of an obstacle’s or an enemy’s square.”</p><p>Pg. 273 Under line of sight “You can see the target if at least on line doesn’t pass through or touch an object or effect-such as a wall, a thick curtain, or a cloud of fog- that blocks your vision.”</p><p></p><p>My question: For line of sight does passing an obstacles corner, block line of sight.</p><p></p><p>First there is the discrepancy of the text about cover on page 273 that says a wall will block line of sight even if the line just touches it. On page 280 it specifically states that the line of sight is not blocked if it runs along the edge of an obstacle or enemy.</p><p>Assuming the very specific statement on 280 means the line of sight can touch a wall so long as its along the edge then the picture of line of sight on page 274 is wrong, stating that the goblin is Blocked by the line of sight running past the walls corner. (Unless you are supposed to treat the corners differently than an edge, which I doubt since any line going along an edge, technically goes past/touches 2 corners).</p><p></p><p>My thoughts on this are that the picture on page 274 is actually supposed to be Titled Line of Effect, because for line of effect there must be an unobstructed line from any part of the firing square to any part of the target square (per page 273). That page 280 is the correct way to determine cover, and that passing a corner does not block line of sight. And that the line “You can see the target if at least on line doesn’t pass through or touch an object or effect-such as a wall, a thick curtain, or a cloud of fog- that blocks your vision.” Is an error, and would more aptly describe line of effect. I came to this conclusion because of the two following circumstances.</p><p></p><p>Down a hall: X’s are the wall, 0’s are unoccupied space, A shooter and B target.</p><p></p><p>XBX</p><p>X0X</p><p>X0X</p><p>XAX</p><p></p><p>If we use the rules for cover as stated on page 273, A would have Superior Cover (-5) from B, since the line of sight would always be touching a wall since the corners of B all touch the wall. I assume this is not what is intended and the rule for cover on 280 definitely supports that A should be able to see B without any cover. If this is the case then the picture on 273 is wrongly stating that line of sight is blocked to the goblin, though the picture would be a perfect example of line of effect.</p><p></p><p>Two alcoves in a wall: X’s are the wall, 0’s are unoccupied space, A shooter and B Target.</p><p></p><p>XX00</p><p>XB00</p><p>XX00</p><p>XX00</p><p>XA00</p><p></p><p>If we follow the cover rules on page 280 , A has line of sight to target B and B only has cover (-2) since A can draw a line to B’s upper right and bottom right corners along the wall from A’s top right corner. The reason I see this not to be a valid shot is that Line of effect does not have the stipulation that sight does on page 280. So the lines drawn for line of effect in this case would still be along the edge of the wall to B, and so while the target is seen, he is not targetable.</p><p></p><p>Anyway I am very interested in finding out what others have found or determined about line of sight and line of effect and the discrepancies noted above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Glitch13, post: 4301629, member: 69400"] From the PHB Pg. 274 the picture of blocked line of sight that should not be blocked. Pg. 280 Cover statement and picture: “A line isn’t blocked if it runs along the edge of an obstacle’s or an enemy’s square.” Pg. 273 Under line of sight “You can see the target if at least on line doesn’t pass through or touch an object or effect-such as a wall, a thick curtain, or a cloud of fog- that blocks your vision.” My question: For line of sight does passing an obstacles corner, block line of sight. First there is the discrepancy of the text about cover on page 273 that says a wall will block line of sight even if the line just touches it. On page 280 it specifically states that the line of sight is not blocked if it runs along the edge of an obstacle or enemy. Assuming the very specific statement on 280 means the line of sight can touch a wall so long as its along the edge then the picture of line of sight on page 274 is wrong, stating that the goblin is Blocked by the line of sight running past the walls corner. (Unless you are supposed to treat the corners differently than an edge, which I doubt since any line going along an edge, technically goes past/touches 2 corners). My thoughts on this are that the picture on page 274 is actually supposed to be Titled Line of Effect, because for line of effect there must be an unobstructed line from any part of the firing square to any part of the target square (per page 273). That page 280 is the correct way to determine cover, and that passing a corner does not block line of sight. And that the line “You can see the target if at least on line doesn’t pass through or touch an object or effect-such as a wall, a thick curtain, or a cloud of fog- that blocks your vision.” Is an error, and would more aptly describe line of effect. I came to this conclusion because of the two following circumstances. Down a hall: X’s are the wall, 0’s are unoccupied space, A shooter and B target. XBX X0X X0X XAX If we use the rules for cover as stated on page 273, A would have Superior Cover (-5) from B, since the line of sight would always be touching a wall since the corners of B all touch the wall. I assume this is not what is intended and the rule for cover on 280 definitely supports that A should be able to see B without any cover. If this is the case then the picture on 273 is wrongly stating that line of sight is blocked to the goblin, though the picture would be a perfect example of line of effect. Two alcoves in a wall: X’s are the wall, 0’s are unoccupied space, A shooter and B Target. XX00 XB00 XX00 XX00 XA00 If we follow the cover rules on page 280 , A has line of sight to target B and B only has cover (-2) since A can draw a line to B’s upper right and bottom right corners along the wall from A’s top right corner. The reason I see this not to be a valid shot is that Line of effect does not have the stipulation that sight does on page 280. So the lines drawn for line of effect in this case would still be along the edge of the wall to B, and so while the target is seen, he is not targetable. Anyway I am very interested in finding out what others have found or determined about line of sight and line of effect and the discrepancies noted above. [/QUOTE]
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