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Character Builds & Optimization
Looking for Build Feedback Arcane Trickster and Gloom Stalker
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<blockquote data-quote="RogueJK" data-source="post: 7491514" data-attributes="member: 170"><p>To be powerful and effective, a caster's primary stat should be around a 14-16 at a minimum, to start with. (And ideally a 16-18.) Then bumped higher several times through ASIs.</p><p></p><p>Starting with a 14 INT would be workable for an Arcane Trickster, whose casting is somewhat secondary, if you were able to raise it as you level up. But with your situation, even if you were to switch INT and CON, you'd still be a bit behind the curve since all your ASIs are eaten up with a large amount of feats, and the lone remaining ASI is needed for DEX. So you'd remain at a 14 INT for your entire career. Better than 12, but still not ideal.</p><p></p><p>If your build weren't so MAD, you'd have plenty of feats to spare for all those ones you want to take. And if your build weren't so feat-heavy, you'd have plenty of ASIs to continue to bump your several needed stats. But you're wanting both MAD and feat-heavy, which isn't easily done. It's usually an either/or proposition.</p><p></p><p>To make both a MAD and feat-heavy build like this truly viable, you'd need an alternative stat method, combined with some luck, to start with high scores in all 3 (and a half) of your important stats. It'd be doable if you were starting with something like: </p><p></p><p>10ish STR</p><p>16-18 DEX</p><p>14ish CON</p><p>16-18 INT</p><p>16-18 WIS</p><p>10ish CHA </p><p></p><p>As it is, with the standard array for stats plus a desire for many feats, I still think you'd be better off from an optimization standpoint to remove the INT casting altogether, and choose a different Rogue archetype, thus removing the MAD. A 12-14 INT is fine for for a non-caster Rogue who will be using it mainly for Investigation, especially with Proficiency and then Expertise added in.</p><p></p><p>The alternative, if you really want to keep Arcane Trickster in the mix, is to start with a 14 INT and ditch two or three feats in order to put those ASIs towards INT. That would make you effective as an arcane caster, but less effective as an archer. It's a give-and-take.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course, that's all from a min/max or powergaming/optimizing perspective. So with all that said, the other way to look at it is "This is the character I want to play, warts and all". If you want an Arcane Trickster with a 12/14 Intelligence, then by God, be an Arcane Trickster! You may not be the most effective caster, but even with a lower INT it adds in some interesting defensive spells that aren't INT-dependant, like Invisibility and Mirror Image, lets you do sneaky thief stuff at range, and certainly seems like a cool idea for a character. But if you're the type of person who's used to playing min-maxed characters, and you start playing one that's not optimized, it can sometimes be frustrating if spells fail semi-frequently and your cool strategies don't work like you envisioned. If you're okay with that, you can certainly still have tons of fun with a non-optimized character.</p><p></p><p>You do you. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RogueJK, post: 7491514, member: 170"] To be powerful and effective, a caster's primary stat should be around a 14-16 at a minimum, to start with. (And ideally a 16-18.) Then bumped higher several times through ASIs. Starting with a 14 INT would be workable for an Arcane Trickster, whose casting is somewhat secondary, if you were able to raise it as you level up. But with your situation, even if you were to switch INT and CON, you'd still be a bit behind the curve since all your ASIs are eaten up with a large amount of feats, and the lone remaining ASI is needed for DEX. So you'd remain at a 14 INT for your entire career. Better than 12, but still not ideal. If your build weren't so MAD, you'd have plenty of feats to spare for all those ones you want to take. And if your build weren't so feat-heavy, you'd have plenty of ASIs to continue to bump your several needed stats. But you're wanting both MAD and feat-heavy, which isn't easily done. It's usually an either/or proposition. To make both a MAD and feat-heavy build like this truly viable, you'd need an alternative stat method, combined with some luck, to start with high scores in all 3 (and a half) of your important stats. It'd be doable if you were starting with something like: 10ish STR 16-18 DEX 14ish CON 16-18 INT 16-18 WIS 10ish CHA As it is, with the standard array for stats plus a desire for many feats, I still think you'd be better off from an optimization standpoint to remove the INT casting altogether, and choose a different Rogue archetype, thus removing the MAD. A 12-14 INT is fine for for a non-caster Rogue who will be using it mainly for Investigation, especially with Proficiency and then Expertise added in. The alternative, if you really want to keep Arcane Trickster in the mix, is to start with a 14 INT and ditch two or three feats in order to put those ASIs towards INT. That would make you effective as an arcane caster, but less effective as an archer. It's a give-and-take. Of course, that's all from a min/max or powergaming/optimizing perspective. So with all that said, the other way to look at it is "This is the character I want to play, warts and all". If you want an Arcane Trickster with a 12/14 Intelligence, then by God, be an Arcane Trickster! You may not be the most effective caster, but even with a lower INT it adds in some interesting defensive spells that aren't INT-dependant, like Invisibility and Mirror Image, lets you do sneaky thief stuff at range, and certainly seems like a cool idea for a character. But if you're the type of person who's used to playing min-maxed characters, and you start playing one that's not optimized, it can sometimes be frustrating if spells fail semi-frequently and your cool strategies don't work like you envisioned. If you're okay with that, you can certainly still have tons of fun with a non-optimized character. You do you. :) [/QUOTE]
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