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<blockquote data-quote="Schmoe" data-source="post: 7439461" data-attributes="member: 913"><p>Again, you and I are on the same page here. I'm definitely aware of the effect, but haven't made any real changes in the area yet. I think the biggest thing holding me back is that I just started a new group this year. The group has a mix of people new to D&D and people returning after a long hiatus, and I'm reluctant to make major homebrew changes to the game while they are still learning it. Because of this I've deliberately decided to limit most of my changes for now to new feats. But over the long term your changes sound a lot more like the direction I want to go. </p><p></p><p>The other thing I'm weighing is, if I'm making this many changes to the system, would it be better to just look to an alternate system. 5E seems decent (although I can already think of a few houserules I would want), and PF2 actually looks like it may be promising. Of course, I was hoping that PF1 would address the very issues we're discussing in this thread, but instead it made them arguably worse, so I don't know how much hope I have for PF2.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That actually sounds really cool. The skills system is a great way to open up more possibilities without tying combat potential to feats. I'd be really interested in seeing your skill writeups, if you're willing to share.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My current incarnation of this is a new feat:</p><p></p><p><strong>Heroic Resilience</strong></p><p>Pre-req: One of Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes</p><p>If you are under the effects of a negative magical effect, you can take a standard action to end the effect by making another saving throw against the effect's original DC. You can only make one additional save against any given magical effect.</p><p></p><p>I haven't seen it in play, so I'm not sure if it will be effective enough.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I don't actually think I've been completely focused on damage. After all, my OP specifically was asking for advice on new tactical options. I definitely think the problem is a lot bigger than just damage. </p><p></p><p>Wall of Force (and worse, Forcecage) is a particularly challenging problem, but it is likewise a problem for pretty much everything in the game that doesn't have teleportation or blink abilities. I'll settle for not solving that one outright if I can at least address some of the others.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you're on to something with the skills. This gives me a whole new area to think about it, so I'm going to see what I can come up with. As I said before, I'd also love to see any houserules you have in this area.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh yeah, for sure. I always felt the Orb spells, for example, and the notion that SR doesn't apply to Conjuration, were a terrible design approach. It essentially just became a way to put good spells in Conjuration and skirt SR as a meaningful defense. On the subject of Spider Climb and Jump, I'm fine with them at low-levels, because they still represent a significant investment of capability for the spellcasters. At higher levels, though, when those slots are throwaways, the non-casters should definitely be competitive.</p><p></p><p>Overall it sounds like you see some of the challenges in much the same way as I do, and you've actually had the time and experience to implement some changes to address them. Thanks!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Schmoe, post: 7439461, member: 913"] Again, you and I are on the same page here. I'm definitely aware of the effect, but haven't made any real changes in the area yet. I think the biggest thing holding me back is that I just started a new group this year. The group has a mix of people new to D&D and people returning after a long hiatus, and I'm reluctant to make major homebrew changes to the game while they are still learning it. Because of this I've deliberately decided to limit most of my changes for now to new feats. But over the long term your changes sound a lot more like the direction I want to go. The other thing I'm weighing is, if I'm making this many changes to the system, would it be better to just look to an alternate system. 5E seems decent (although I can already think of a few houserules I would want), and PF2 actually looks like it may be promising. Of course, I was hoping that PF1 would address the very issues we're discussing in this thread, but instead it made them arguably worse, so I don't know how much hope I have for PF2. That actually sounds really cool. The skills system is a great way to open up more possibilities without tying combat potential to feats. I'd be really interested in seeing your skill writeups, if you're willing to share. My current incarnation of this is a new feat: [b]Heroic Resilience[/b] Pre-req: One of Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes If you are under the effects of a negative magical effect, you can take a standard action to end the effect by making another saving throw against the effect's original DC. You can only make one additional save against any given magical effect. I haven't seen it in play, so I'm not sure if it will be effective enough. Well, I don't actually think I've been completely focused on damage. After all, my OP specifically was asking for advice on new tactical options. I definitely think the problem is a lot bigger than just damage. Wall of Force (and worse, Forcecage) is a particularly challenging problem, but it is likewise a problem for pretty much everything in the game that doesn't have teleportation or blink abilities. I'll settle for not solving that one outright if I can at least address some of the others. I think you're on to something with the skills. This gives me a whole new area to think about it, so I'm going to see what I can come up with. As I said before, I'd also love to see any houserules you have in this area. Oh yeah, for sure. I always felt the Orb spells, for example, and the notion that SR doesn't apply to Conjuration, were a terrible design approach. It essentially just became a way to put good spells in Conjuration and skirt SR as a meaningful defense. On the subject of Spider Climb and Jump, I'm fine with them at low-levels, because they still represent a significant investment of capability for the spellcasters. At higher levels, though, when those slots are throwaways, the non-casters should definitely be competitive. Overall it sounds like you see some of the challenges in much the same way as I do, and you've actually had the time and experience to implement some changes to address them. Thanks! [/QUOTE]
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