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Looking for thoughts on my kitbashed 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 7231106" data-attributes="member: 57494"><p>Hi everyone. Recently, my attention is turning back to 4E. Matthew Colville's video ( <a href="https://youtu.be/QoELQ7px9ws" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/QoELQ7px9ws</a> ) and some other things have made me realize I had the most fun DMing back in 4E. But, the system is a bit bloated, so I wanted to do a few things. I'd like to hear your thoughts.</p><p></p><p><strong>Reduce Classes</strong></p><p>I want to reduce the number of classes down to 12-14. Each class will be able to be multiple roles, based on their subclass choice. The classes I'm looking at doing, and where other 4E classes would fit in, are:</p><p></p><p>Artificer (Arcane; I'm more and more thinking of this, as it is an archetype that is hard to do with other classes)</p><p>Barbarian (Martial/Primal)</p><p>Bard (Arcane)</p><p>Cleric (Divine): Invoker</p><p>Druid (Primal): Shaman</p><p>Fighter (Martial): Warlord and some Ranger stuff</p><p>Monk (Ki, rebranded Psionics): Battlemind</p><p>Mystic (Ki, stealing from 5th): Ardent, Battlemind</p><p>Paladin (Divine/Martial): Avenger</p><p>Ranger (Primal/Martial): Seeker</p><p>Rogue (Martial): some Ranger stuff, some warlord</p><p>Sorcerer (Arcane)</p><p>Warlock (Arcane)</p><p>Wizard (Arcane)</p><p></p><p>Ideally, the core four classes (Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) can be any role. A life Cleric is a healer, a storm cleric or a more invoked would be a controller, a war cleric could be a striker, a protection cleric a defender. A fighter could be a warlord as a leader, a two-handed weapon wielded or tempest as a striker, a shield bearer as a defender, a polearm specialist as a controller. A rogue could be a noble lazylord as a leader, a trick shot archer as a controller, a Duelist as a defender, or a sniper or traditional rogue as a striker. A wizard could be a defender as a conjurer or necromancer with a big pet, a leader as an abjurer, a controller as an illusionist, a striker as an evoker.</p><p></p><p>Other classes would be more limited in their roles, except I imagine Bards having some built in dual classing with half and half roles (all bards are leaders, but they dabble in the others) and that Druids change roles with wildshape. Barbarians may have various roles but switch to striker upon entering rage. For instance.</p><p></p><p><strong>Spells, not Powers</strong></p><p>One thing that frustrated me about late 4E were the number of duplicate powers. Since powers were mostly by class, you ended up with a half dozen 1st level at-wills that did 1W+ability+slow 1 round. I want to bring spell lists back, and exploit lists for the martial classes, and share more across class barriers. I also want to redo spells so they're more akin to classic spells, and I want to have dailies become encounters rather than spells going obsolete. For instance, a second level spell may start as one of your first dailies, but at higher levels it switches to being an encounter spell.</p><p></p><p>I want choices in switching spells day to day as well, and for martial characters to learn an expanding power set. Utility slots will still be separate, but I may play with how they work.</p><p></p><p><strong>Goals and Reasoning</strong></p><p>Why am I wanting to change so much on the player side of 4E? I started playing during 3E and greatly enjoyed playing, DMing, and creating. 4E was a godsend for me, because I greatly enjoyed the way it's math played out, how long (in rounds) encounters took, the increased options for classes, and the encounter vs daily balance.</p><p></p><p>That said, I dislike system bloat and I want to condense things to make them more presentable. My group is mostly anti-4E, but after talking with them a lot I think I can "trick" them by using more classic character presentations but keeping the math and monsters intact.</p><p></p><p>Changing the player side of things feels like less, and more rewarding, work than adjusting the entire damage to HP and monster design of 5E.</p><p></p><p>What are your thoughts?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xeviat, post: 7231106, member: 57494"] Hi everyone. Recently, my attention is turning back to 4E. Matthew Colville's video ( [url]https://youtu.be/QoELQ7px9ws[/url] ) and some other things have made me realize I had the most fun DMing back in 4E. But, the system is a bit bloated, so I wanted to do a few things. I'd like to hear your thoughts. [b]Reduce Classes[/b] I want to reduce the number of classes down to 12-14. Each class will be able to be multiple roles, based on their subclass choice. The classes I'm looking at doing, and where other 4E classes would fit in, are: Artificer (Arcane; I'm more and more thinking of this, as it is an archetype that is hard to do with other classes) Barbarian (Martial/Primal) Bard (Arcane) Cleric (Divine): Invoker Druid (Primal): Shaman Fighter (Martial): Warlord and some Ranger stuff Monk (Ki, rebranded Psionics): Battlemind Mystic (Ki, stealing from 5th): Ardent, Battlemind Paladin (Divine/Martial): Avenger Ranger (Primal/Martial): Seeker Rogue (Martial): some Ranger stuff, some warlord Sorcerer (Arcane) Warlock (Arcane) Wizard (Arcane) Ideally, the core four classes (Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) can be any role. A life Cleric is a healer, a storm cleric or a more invoked would be a controller, a war cleric could be a striker, a protection cleric a defender. A fighter could be a warlord as a leader, a two-handed weapon wielded or tempest as a striker, a shield bearer as a defender, a polearm specialist as a controller. A rogue could be a noble lazylord as a leader, a trick shot archer as a controller, a Duelist as a defender, or a sniper or traditional rogue as a striker. A wizard could be a defender as a conjurer or necromancer with a big pet, a leader as an abjurer, a controller as an illusionist, a striker as an evoker. Other classes would be more limited in their roles, except I imagine Bards having some built in dual classing with half and half roles (all bards are leaders, but they dabble in the others) and that Druids change roles with wildshape. Barbarians may have various roles but switch to striker upon entering rage. For instance. [b]Spells, not Powers[/b] One thing that frustrated me about late 4E were the number of duplicate powers. Since powers were mostly by class, you ended up with a half dozen 1st level at-wills that did 1W+ability+slow 1 round. I want to bring spell lists back, and exploit lists for the martial classes, and share more across class barriers. I also want to redo spells so they're more akin to classic spells, and I want to have dailies become encounters rather than spells going obsolete. For instance, a second level spell may start as one of your first dailies, but at higher levels it switches to being an encounter spell. I want choices in switching spells day to day as well, and for martial characters to learn an expanding power set. Utility slots will still be separate, but I may play with how they work. [b]Goals and Reasoning[/b] Why am I wanting to change so much on the player side of 4E? I started playing during 3E and greatly enjoyed playing, DMing, and creating. 4E was a godsend for me, because I greatly enjoyed the way it's math played out, how long (in rounds) encounters took, the increased options for classes, and the encounter vs daily balance. That said, I dislike system bloat and I want to condense things to make them more presentable. My group is mostly anti-4E, but after talking with them a lot I think I can "trick" them by using more classic character presentations but keeping the math and monsters intact. Changing the player side of things feels like less, and more rewarding, work than adjusting the entire damage to HP and monster design of 5E. What are your thoughts? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [/QUOTE]
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