Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Looking for thoughts on my kitbashed 4E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7234092" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Sorry if I'm 'banging my own drum' again, but in HoML, which definitely remakes a lot of 4e, I simply discarded the concept of an 'arcane power source'. The WORD 'arcane' simply means something which is known or knowable only to a few, obscure, or mysterious. As such it describes a condition of knowledge, not a source of power. The problem, thematically, is then that arcane HAS NO THEMATICS. This is ABUNDANTLY clear WRT to the 4e Wizard, and then made gob-stoppingly clear when the Mage comes along and literally swallows have the class hierarchy, thematically. Think about it this way, if the Wizard is the guy who knows 'arcane stuff' (and he's thematically the academic, the other classes in this power source at best sip from this font) then he basically has no limits. Any knowledge might be 'arcane', and there's surely the possibility of some 'arcana' which can provide the needed information to do ANY particular thing. So, the thematics boil down to 'guy who can figure out how to do anything'. See the problem?! </p><p></p><p>The Cleric by itself isn't REALLY an issue. I mean, its better thematically if you have clerics that operate within particular spheres (and whether you call that a class, a subclass, or a 'build' is a whole other argument). Still, Cleric is thematically limited to granted power (thus always subject to the limits of the powers of the gods, the powers the gods are willing to grant, etc). Its a bit open-ended in some sense, but with a sphere to put some boundaries on it then the class becomes a pretty reasonable concept that shouldn't really step on too many toes.</p><p></p><p>In terms of 'mage-like' classes... There are a few possible approaches. Force all wizards to effectively be what 4e calls 'warlocks', that is they acquire power via pacts and thus you can limit them much like clerics (and there can be a nice symmetry here). You could also make them all specialize, but that seems kind of a weak option. I mean there's always that guy who's good at lots of stuff... There's also the question there of actual power source. What I finally decided on was simply having a few different types of classes that are each pretty limited and rely on specific power sources or patrons. </p><p></p><p>One could be an academic wizard serving Ioun via a pact for example. Mechanically you'd be a type of 'warlock' in essence with a pact benefit that was some sort of source of arcane knowledge (but under the control of your mentor). These types might be close to the 4e invoker in some sense. </p><p></p><p>Sorcerers would be the basis for another 'caster type' which would be your innate caster. I think they've already been reasonably well developed. </p><p></p><p>In terms of the idea of 'no class powers' I think you could do it, though exactly how a 'warlock' (character with a patron) would assemble a list I'm not sure. I guess they could be much like spheres. That sort of jumbles the neat power source to class thing a bit, but maybe there's a way to fix that, not sure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7234092, member: 82106"] Sorry if I'm 'banging my own drum' again, but in HoML, which definitely remakes a lot of 4e, I simply discarded the concept of an 'arcane power source'. The WORD 'arcane' simply means something which is known or knowable only to a few, obscure, or mysterious. As such it describes a condition of knowledge, not a source of power. The problem, thematically, is then that arcane HAS NO THEMATICS. This is ABUNDANTLY clear WRT to the 4e Wizard, and then made gob-stoppingly clear when the Mage comes along and literally swallows have the class hierarchy, thematically. Think about it this way, if the Wizard is the guy who knows 'arcane stuff' (and he's thematically the academic, the other classes in this power source at best sip from this font) then he basically has no limits. Any knowledge might be 'arcane', and there's surely the possibility of some 'arcana' which can provide the needed information to do ANY particular thing. So, the thematics boil down to 'guy who can figure out how to do anything'. See the problem?! The Cleric by itself isn't REALLY an issue. I mean, its better thematically if you have clerics that operate within particular spheres (and whether you call that a class, a subclass, or a 'build' is a whole other argument). Still, Cleric is thematically limited to granted power (thus always subject to the limits of the powers of the gods, the powers the gods are willing to grant, etc). Its a bit open-ended in some sense, but with a sphere to put some boundaries on it then the class becomes a pretty reasonable concept that shouldn't really step on too many toes. In terms of 'mage-like' classes... There are a few possible approaches. Force all wizards to effectively be what 4e calls 'warlocks', that is they acquire power via pacts and thus you can limit them much like clerics (and there can be a nice symmetry here). You could also make them all specialize, but that seems kind of a weak option. I mean there's always that guy who's good at lots of stuff... There's also the question there of actual power source. What I finally decided on was simply having a few different types of classes that are each pretty limited and rely on specific power sources or patrons. One could be an academic wizard serving Ioun via a pact for example. Mechanically you'd be a type of 'warlock' in essence with a pact benefit that was some sort of source of arcane knowledge (but under the control of your mentor). These types might be close to the 4e invoker in some sense. Sorcerers would be the basis for another 'caster type' which would be your innate caster. I think they've already been reasonably well developed. In terms of the idea of 'no class powers' I think you could do it, though exactly how a 'warlock' (character with a patron) would assemble a list I'm not sure. I guess they could be much like spheres. That sort of jumbles the neat power source to class thing a bit, but maybe there's a way to fix that, not sure. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Looking for thoughts on my kitbashed 4E
Top