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Looking for thoughts on my kitbashed 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="MoutonRustique" data-source="post: 7236026" data-attributes="member: 22362"><p>Don't know about the rest, but I do know the solution to these situations (but it's not an easy answer to implement.)</p><p></p><p><strong>Subtraction.</strong></p><p>The only way a game effect can <em>feel</em> distinctive <em>on it's own</em> is that it be unique*.</p><p></p><p>So yeah, if you want [bard] buffs and [cleric] buffs to <em>feel</em> different in 4e, you need to make it so that there is no overlap between what kinds of buffs they can give. (In some other editions, the rules minutia is so intense that you can get a different feel from those - but 4e doesn't really have that.)</p><p></p><p>Same with [fire cleric] vs [wizard]...</p><p></p><p>[rant]</p><p>Honestly, <em>most</em> (if not <em>all!</em>) of these issues come from the "D&D wizard". It's a horrible class - it does everything! It eats up so much space that it always strangles everything else.</p><p></p><p>IMO, the best way to have casters in the game is to have them be much more niche or tied to a very significant "shtick" :</p><p>[shaman] - spirit ally</p><p>[sorceror] - blood lines</p><p>[swordmage] - way too awesome</p><p>[warlock] - curse and boon (+ built-in fluff!)</p><p></p><p>When you don't have those very present elements you get (still fun to play, and cool!) classes like the [radiant wizard = invoker]... So when you're trying to build something cool and distinctive, if the [wizard] is there, you've pretty much stabbed your foot before a marathon...</p><p></p><p>This cow is sacred among'st all cows - but the [wizard] needs to meet the bbq...</p><p>[/rant]</p><p></p><p><strong>Addendum:</strong> if you don't want a power (ability, whatever) to feel like "just another power" upon reading it, the only way I can really see this happening is with a more "natural language approach" to description of powers and abilities - 5e is a good example of this.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, for many of it's powers and abilities, 4e isn't the best at evocative presentation... But 4e <em>does</em> offer tools to make the powers and abilities <em>play</em> differently!</p><p></p><p>Again, if you want something to be different, it has to be... well, different! So go heavy with the subtraction bat and remove those overlaps! Or you can find a new way to use those powers.</p><p>- Something as simple as: spend a minor action after you hit an enemy to apply buff. That you require hitting an enemy to apply a buff will give a certain feel if juxtaposed to something else. Such as...</p><p>- You must use a power with [keyword] associated with your god to get access to [buff X]</p><p>- you must be in bright light to give buff</p><p>- target must be in dim light to receive buff</p><p>- something else that's more clever than what I wrote</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MoutonRustique, post: 7236026, member: 22362"] Don't know about the rest, but I do know the solution to these situations (but it's not an easy answer to implement.) [B]Subtraction.[/B] The only way a game effect can [I]feel[/I] distinctive [I]on it's own[/I] is that it be unique*. So yeah, if you want [bard] buffs and [cleric] buffs to [I]feel[/I] different in 4e, you need to make it so that there is no overlap between what kinds of buffs they can give. (In some other editions, the rules minutia is so intense that you can get a different feel from those - but 4e doesn't really have that.) Same with [fire cleric] vs [wizard]... [rant] Honestly, [I]most[/I] (if not [I]all![/I]) of these issues come from the "D&D wizard". It's a horrible class - it does everything! It eats up so much space that it always strangles everything else. IMO, the best way to have casters in the game is to have them be much more niche or tied to a very significant "shtick" : [shaman] - spirit ally [sorceror] - blood lines [swordmage] - way too awesome [warlock] - curse and boon (+ built-in fluff!) When you don't have those very present elements you get (still fun to play, and cool!) classes like the [radiant wizard = invoker]... So when you're trying to build something cool and distinctive, if the [wizard] is there, you've pretty much stabbed your foot before a marathon... This cow is sacred among'st all cows - but the [wizard] needs to meet the bbq... [/rant] [B]Addendum:[/B] if you don't want a power (ability, whatever) to feel like "just another power" upon reading it, the only way I can really see this happening is with a more "natural language approach" to description of powers and abilities - 5e is a good example of this. Unfortunately, for many of it's powers and abilities, 4e isn't the best at evocative presentation... But 4e [I]does[/I] offer tools to make the powers and abilities [I]play[/I] differently! Again, if you want something to be different, it has to be... well, different! So go heavy with the subtraction bat and remove those overlaps! Or you can find a new way to use those powers. - Something as simple as: spend a minor action after you hit an enemy to apply buff. That you require hitting an enemy to apply a buff will give a certain feel if juxtaposed to something else. Such as... - You must use a power with [keyword] associated with your god to get access to [buff X] - you must be in bright light to give buff - target must be in dim light to receive buff - something else that's more clever than what I wrote [/QUOTE]
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