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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Looking for thoughts on my kitbashed 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="Cyvris" data-source="post: 7242044" data-attributes="member: 81262"><p>Chiming in as I've worked on a "similar" project recently and am currently playtesting it with my veteran 4e group. </p><p></p><p>My focus was mostly on cutting down powers/spells. My approach culled out a good 90% of all powers and then tossed them into a single power source sub header. Any character/class that uses the power source can select any powers from that source. Some have additional effects based off class (Arc Lightning for a Swordmage is also a pull, while Druids often turn powers into AoEs or have a debuff attached to them, Rangers/Rogues can use Twin Strike to hit the same target while Fighters have to target two different creatures) to help set things apart, keep "roles" in place, or to combine two powers that are <em>mostly </em>mechanically similar into one power. Some classes (Barbarian and Monk) also allow you to select powers/spells from an alternative power source in place of your others, usually the alternative pick coming from a list of Martial Exploits. I did not go in like you did and let each class fill multiple roles, instead my idea is more the power source is your "class" first, with the "class" dictating role, and your power choice either reinforcing that or letting you dip your toe into a second role. </p><p></p><p>Aracanist>Defender>Warmage</p><p></p><p>Martial>Defender>Fighter</p><p></p><p>Primal>Leader>Shaman</p><p></p><p>All the classes share a unified list of powers and could reasonably be called similar things (Druid or Fighter for everything in their power source) with specialization in role being what really sets them apart. </p><p></p><p>I also overhauled "utility" powers, cutting out <em>most</em> of the combat related ones, leaving things that have more out of combat use as the majority. Players also get 2 (3 for some classes) instead of one and anyone with the "Ritual Caster" feat can select from a much wider list that consists of most of 4e's rituals and some older edition stuff rewritten in "power" format.</p><p></p><p>As for classes, I eliminated a few (no Divine, mostly as I don't like them, Sorcerers killed Warlocks and took their Curse/Boon mechanic to make them mechanically distinct and interesting) and also removed most "class feats" from the game. These feats instead became class features, divided across three tiers, with players picking 2/2/1 in total. The idea here was a rather blatant lifting from WoW's current incarnation of talent trees and the intent is to make players heavily consider what they pick. Does the Warlord want to grant extra hp or allow any THP they grant to not expire after combat? Does the Swordmage prefer boosting their Warding or extra kicker's on their Aegis? </p><p></p><p>Most classes received at least some tweaking, mostly granting some roleplay features and EVERY Power Source now has the equivalent of Wizard Cantrips. Controller's also got a unifying class feature lifted from the Protector Druid's "Summon Difficult Terrain" ability. Druids kept that one, Wizards get the ability to summon a short wall, and Psions get a blast that pulls creatures in the AoE to a point/slows them.</p><p></p><p>Not sure how "legal" linking my work here would be as most of it is straight copy-paste of 4e material. Right now, I have completed powers up through level 5 dailies, along with class re-writes, the first tier of class features, feat tweaks, and a <em>massive</em> skill rework taken from Fantasy Flight Games narrative dice system all written up. If anyone is interested, shoot me a PM and I'll link the files.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately I would <em>like </em>to move towards something like you allude to with spells (Daily to Encounter/Spell Slots) and maybe something closer to Tome of Battle for Martial characters, but that's a long way off or would be an entirely "homebrew" edition I'd make.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cyvris, post: 7242044, member: 81262"] Chiming in as I've worked on a "similar" project recently and am currently playtesting it with my veteran 4e group. My focus was mostly on cutting down powers/spells. My approach culled out a good 90% of all powers and then tossed them into a single power source sub header. Any character/class that uses the power source can select any powers from that source. Some have additional effects based off class (Arc Lightning for a Swordmage is also a pull, while Druids often turn powers into AoEs or have a debuff attached to them, Rangers/Rogues can use Twin Strike to hit the same target while Fighters have to target two different creatures) to help set things apart, keep "roles" in place, or to combine two powers that are [I]mostly [/I]mechanically similar into one power. Some classes (Barbarian and Monk) also allow you to select powers/spells from an alternative power source in place of your others, usually the alternative pick coming from a list of Martial Exploits. I did not go in like you did and let each class fill multiple roles, instead my idea is more the power source is your "class" first, with the "class" dictating role, and your power choice either reinforcing that or letting you dip your toe into a second role. Aracanist>Defender>Warmage Martial>Defender>Fighter Primal>Leader>Shaman All the classes share a unified list of powers and could reasonably be called similar things (Druid or Fighter for everything in their power source) with specialization in role being what really sets them apart. I also overhauled "utility" powers, cutting out [I]most[/I] of the combat related ones, leaving things that have more out of combat use as the majority. Players also get 2 (3 for some classes) instead of one and anyone with the "Ritual Caster" feat can select from a much wider list that consists of most of 4e's rituals and some older edition stuff rewritten in "power" format. As for classes, I eliminated a few (no Divine, mostly as I don't like them, Sorcerers killed Warlocks and took their Curse/Boon mechanic to make them mechanically distinct and interesting) and also removed most "class feats" from the game. These feats instead became class features, divided across three tiers, with players picking 2/2/1 in total. The idea here was a rather blatant lifting from WoW's current incarnation of talent trees and the intent is to make players heavily consider what they pick. Does the Warlord want to grant extra hp or allow any THP they grant to not expire after combat? Does the Swordmage prefer boosting their Warding or extra kicker's on their Aegis? Most classes received at least some tweaking, mostly granting some roleplay features and EVERY Power Source now has the equivalent of Wizard Cantrips. Controller's also got a unifying class feature lifted from the Protector Druid's "Summon Difficult Terrain" ability. Druids kept that one, Wizards get the ability to summon a short wall, and Psions get a blast that pulls creatures in the AoE to a point/slows them. Not sure how "legal" linking my work here would be as most of it is straight copy-paste of 4e material. Right now, I have completed powers up through level 5 dailies, along with class re-writes, the first tier of class features, feat tweaks, and a [I]massive[/I] skill rework taken from Fantasy Flight Games narrative dice system all written up. If anyone is interested, shoot me a PM and I'll link the files. Ultimately I would [I]like [/I]to move towards something like you allude to with spells (Daily to Encounter/Spell Slots) and maybe something closer to Tome of Battle for Martial characters, but that's a long way off or would be an entirely "homebrew" edition I'd make. [/QUOTE]
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