Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Loops in RPG Adventure and Game Design
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7728686" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Authors write stories. Poems. Scripts. Adveristing copy. Scientific reports. Etc etc.</p><p></p><p>Well, collectively they produce stuff which issues in sequences of imaginary events connected by character, time and place (which is a minimal instance of a story). Depending on the techniques used, they may produce such sequences which are stories in more than a minimal sense (ie involve dramatic conflict, rising action, climax and resolution, etc).</p><p></p><p>There is a simple example found in Book 3 of OD&D, The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures (pp 12-13) - the interaction is between the referee and the party caller:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">REF: Steps down to the east.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">CAL: We're going down.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">REF: 10', 20', 30' - a 10' square landing - steps down to the north and curving down southeast.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">CAL: Take those to the southeast</p><p></p><p>It's not the most riveting fiction of all time, and I won't quote any more of it, but look at what is actually happening there. First, the referee establishes, as an element in a shared fiction, that the player characters are at the top of steps descending east. The caller then introduces a new element into the fiction - the PCs are descending those steps. The referee elaborates - the descent is 30' before the PCs arrive at a landing where they can see more steps going down. The caller then authors more fiction: the PCs go down the southeast stairs.</p><p></p><p>Now we can talk about the methods used to generate the shared fiction (eg the referee is probably narrating the architecural details from some pre-written notes and a pre-drawn map; the caller may be consulating with the other players to decide what the PCs do). But discussion of possible methods of authorship doesn't change the fact that what is going on here is the collective authoring of a sequence of fictional events concerning these characters in this place at this time.</p><p></p><p>This claim isn't true as a matter of RPGing procedure. Look at the example of play I just gave: the players (or, at least, the caller) decide that their PCs are going downstairs.</p><p></p><p>Here is another example, from the 5e Basic PDF (p 2):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">DM: . . . From atop the high strong walls, stone gargoyles stare at you from hollow sockets and grin hideously. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Phillip (playing Gareth): I want to look at the gargoyles. I have a feeling they’re not just statues. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Dungeon Master (DM): OK, one at a time. Phillip, you’re looking at the gargoyles?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Phillip: Yeah. Is there any hint they might be creatures and not decorations?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">DM: Make an Intelligence check.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Phillip: Does my Investigation skill apply?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">DM: Sure!</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Phillip (rolling a d20): Ugh. Seven.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">DM: They look like decorations to you.</p><p></p><p>In that example of play, it is Phillip who authored Gareth's investigation of the gargoyles, and Phillip who made it the case (in the fiction) that Gareth was wondering whether or not these statues are <em>merely</em> statutes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7728686, member: 42582"] Authors write stories. Poems. Scripts. Adveristing copy. Scientific reports. Etc etc. Well, collectively they produce stuff which issues in sequences of imaginary events connected by character, time and place (which is a minimal instance of a story). Depending on the techniques used, they may produce such sequences which are stories in more than a minimal sense (ie involve dramatic conflict, rising action, climax and resolution, etc). There is a simple example found in Book 3 of OD&D, The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures (pp 12-13) - the interaction is between the referee and the party caller: [indent]REF: Steps down to the east. CAL: We're going down. REF: 10', 20', 30' - a 10' square landing - steps down to the north and curving down southeast. CAL: Take those to the southeast[/indent] It's not the most riveting fiction of all time, and I won't quote any more of it, but look at what is actually happening there. First, the referee establishes, as an element in a shared fiction, that the player characters are at the top of steps descending east. The caller then introduces a new element into the fiction - the PCs are descending those steps. The referee elaborates - the descent is 30' before the PCs arrive at a landing where they can see more steps going down. The caller then authors more fiction: the PCs go down the southeast stairs. Now we can talk about the methods used to generate the shared fiction (eg the referee is probably narrating the architecural details from some pre-written notes and a pre-drawn map; the caller may be consulating with the other players to decide what the PCs do). But discussion of possible methods of authorship doesn't change the fact that what is going on here is the collective authoring of a sequence of fictional events concerning these characters in this place at this time. This claim isn't true as a matter of RPGing procedure. Look at the example of play I just gave: the players (or, at least, the caller) decide that their PCs are going downstairs. Here is another example, from the 5e Basic PDF (p 2): [indent]DM: . . . From atop the high strong walls, stone gargoyles stare at you from hollow sockets and grin hideously. . . . Phillip (playing Gareth): I want to look at the gargoyles. I have a feeling they’re not just statues. . . . Dungeon Master (DM): OK, one at a time. Phillip, you’re looking at the gargoyles? Phillip: Yeah. Is there any hint they might be creatures and not decorations? DM: Make an Intelligence check. Phillip: Does my Investigation skill apply? DM: Sure! Phillip (rolling a d20): Ugh. Seven. DM: They look like decorations to you.[/indent] In that example of play, it is Phillip who authored Gareth's investigation of the gargoyles, and Phillip who made it the case (in the fiction) that Gareth was wondering whether or not these statues are [I]merely[/I] statutes. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Loops in RPG Adventure and Game Design
Top