Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Lord Soth in canon
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9014609" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>I never thought of myself as being all <em>that</em> into Dragonlance, but I love Lord Soth as a character, so I'll take a crack at some of these.</p><p></p><p>The motivations of virtually everyone else involved in Soth's fall from grace are given only modest attention in most canon materials (and the majority are given far less than that). In the case of the thirteen elven women who were Isolde's previous companions, all we can say for sure is that they fed Soth lies about her being unfaithful to him, and that Paladine punished them for this by turning them into banshees. Almost everything else varies depending on which source you read (i.e. compare what's presented in <em>DL16 World of Krynn</em> to Edo van Belkom's novel <em>Lord Soth</em>, though the former is usually accepted as not being canon compared to the latter).</p><p></p><p>It's worth noting that the most characterization those other elves get is after they turn into banshees. There's some overview of their personalities there (a few even get names in <em>Spectre of the Black Rose</em>), but that's harder to parse, because there's no way of saying whether or not their time as undead creatures has warped their personalities compared to when they were alive.</p><p></p><p>For my part, I think that this is an expression of elven prejudice toward humans. They saw that Isolde was not only married to a human, but pregnant by one, and were repulsed. Their disdain for that was such that they fed Soth lies as punishment for him and Isolde; by that point, I'd wager that they were so consumed with hatred that they'd lost Paladine as a patron (after all, they obviously hadn't vanished in the Night of Doom, which saw all the true clerics vansh from the world prior to the Cataclysm).</p><p></p><p>Isolde is given only somewhat more exploration as a character than the rest of her companions, unfortunately. That said, what is there paints a somewhat complicated portrait that boils down to love being blind.</p><p></p><p>It's possible that Isolde didn't know that Soth was married when they had their initial affair (in the immediate aftermath of his saving her from a group of ogres), as Soth had only been wed for two years at that point and it wasn't like there were newspapers to spread the word. That said, I think her character works better is she did know, and slept with him anyway. Doing so paints her as being complicit in his fall, but I think that works better to explain her part in the story; she was someone who was willfully blind to Soth's faults because she couldn't bring herself to acknowledge her own, i.e. she thought that it was true love, and that such a thing couldn't ever really be wrong.</p><p></p><p>Now, later on there's material to suggest that the blinders were coming off, but even then she kept trying to see the good in him. In <em>Knight of the Black Rose</em>, during the siege of Dargaard Keep, we see Isolde rebuke Soth when he becomes physically abusive, but also as eager to forgive him when he realizes how far he's fallen. Even when the Cataclysm strikes, it's only when he refuses to save their infant son that she finally curses him.</p><p></p><p>Things like this are why I don't call myself a Dragonlance aficionado. I can't really speak to the logistics involved in the distance. I think that Van Belkom's novel has the knights besieging Dargaard Keep fall into a gods-induced sleep so that Soth can leave to go on his quest, but other than that I can't really say.</p><p></p><p>In James Lowder's (truly excellent) <em>Knight of the Black Rose</em> novel, it's a fairly important element of Soth's character that he doesn't leave Dargaard Keep much, if at all, for the next three hundred fifty years or so. That's why, in Ravenloft, Nedragaard Keep is so painful for him; it's a mirror of Dargaard, but with numerous minor imperfections that clash with his memories, such as spiral staircases that wind in the wrong direction, or an intact door where a ruined one should be (some books say that the castle goes through continuous minor changes, but that's not correct). </p><p></p><p>As for Soth's motivations, the only thing we ever see him be proactive for (his time in Ravenloft notwithstanding) is corrupting other women, i.e. his wish to have Laurana for himself after she'd killed, and later his betrayal of Kitiara in an effort to make her into his undead inamorata. From what I can tell, those are presented as being impotent expressions of the lust he still feels (and which played a part in his downfall) but which he can no longer act on. Still, it's notable that he otherwise doesn't seem motivated to do anything with those over the centuries prior to the War of the Lance.</p><p></p><p>Insofar as why he fights in the war at all, it's because he tells Takhisis that he'll serve whichever of her generals is brave enough to spend an entire night in Dargaard Keep; Kitiara does, and so Soth fights for her. Where Takhisis is concerned, <em>Knight of the Black Rose</em> outright tells us that Soth is one of her champions, which he seems to accept; being a death knight condemned by Paladine seems to make that <em>fait accompli</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 9014609, member: 8461"] I never thought of myself as being all [i]that[/i] into Dragonlance, but I love Lord Soth as a character, so I'll take a crack at some of these. The motivations of virtually everyone else involved in Soth's fall from grace are given only modest attention in most canon materials (and the majority are given far less than that). In the case of the thirteen elven women who were Isolde's previous companions, all we can say for sure is that they fed Soth lies about her being unfaithful to him, and that Paladine punished them for this by turning them into banshees. Almost everything else varies depending on which source you read (i.e. compare what's presented in [i]DL16 World of Krynn[/i] to Edo van Belkom's novel [i]Lord Soth[/i], though the former is usually accepted as not being canon compared to the latter). It's worth noting that the most characterization those other elves get is after they turn into banshees. There's some overview of their personalities there (a few even get names in [i]Spectre of the Black Rose[/i]), but that's harder to parse, because there's no way of saying whether or not their time as undead creatures has warped their personalities compared to when they were alive. For my part, I think that this is an expression of elven prejudice toward humans. They saw that Isolde was not only married to a human, but pregnant by one, and were repulsed. Their disdain for that was such that they fed Soth lies as punishment for him and Isolde; by that point, I'd wager that they were so consumed with hatred that they'd lost Paladine as a patron (after all, they obviously hadn't vanished in the Night of Doom, which saw all the true clerics vansh from the world prior to the Cataclysm). Isolde is given only somewhat more exploration as a character than the rest of her companions, unfortunately. That said, what is there paints a somewhat complicated portrait that boils down to love being blind. It's possible that Isolde didn't know that Soth was married when they had their initial affair (in the immediate aftermath of his saving her from a group of ogres), as Soth had only been wed for two years at that point and it wasn't like there were newspapers to spread the word. That said, I think her character works better is she did know, and slept with him anyway. Doing so paints her as being complicit in his fall, but I think that works better to explain her part in the story; she was someone who was willfully blind to Soth's faults because she couldn't bring herself to acknowledge her own, i.e. she thought that it was true love, and that such a thing couldn't ever really be wrong. Now, later on there's material to suggest that the blinders were coming off, but even then she kept trying to see the good in him. In [i]Knight of the Black Rose[/i], during the siege of Dargaard Keep, we see Isolde rebuke Soth when he becomes physically abusive, but also as eager to forgive him when he realizes how far he's fallen. Even when the Cataclysm strikes, it's only when he refuses to save their infant son that she finally curses him. Things like this are why I don't call myself a Dragonlance aficionado. I can't really speak to the logistics involved in the distance. I think that Van Belkom's novel has the knights besieging Dargaard Keep fall into a gods-induced sleep so that Soth can leave to go on his quest, but other than that I can't really say. In James Lowder's (truly excellent) [i]Knight of the Black Rose[/i] novel, it's a fairly important element of Soth's character that he doesn't leave Dargaard Keep much, if at all, for the next three hundred fifty years or so. That's why, in Ravenloft, Nedragaard Keep is so painful for him; it's a mirror of Dargaard, but with numerous minor imperfections that clash with his memories, such as spiral staircases that wind in the wrong direction, or an intact door where a ruined one should be (some books say that the castle goes through continuous minor changes, but that's not correct). As for Soth's motivations, the only thing we ever see him be proactive for (his time in Ravenloft notwithstanding) is corrupting other women, i.e. his wish to have Laurana for himself after she'd killed, and later his betrayal of Kitiara in an effort to make her into his undead inamorata. From what I can tell, those are presented as being impotent expressions of the lust he still feels (and which played a part in his downfall) but which he can no longer act on. Still, it's notable that he otherwise doesn't seem motivated to do anything with those over the centuries prior to the War of the Lance. Insofar as why he fights in the war at all, it's because he tells Takhisis that he'll serve whichever of her generals is brave enough to spend an entire night in Dargaard Keep; Kitiara does, and so Soth fights for her. Where Takhisis is concerned, [i]Knight of the Black Rose[/i] outright tells us that Soth is one of her champions, which he seems to accept; being a death knight condemned by Paladine seems to make that [i]fait accompli[/i]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Lord Soth in canon
Top