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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Lore Bard Debuffer: Spell Selection and Choice of Dip
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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7478354" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>Yeah, we're on the same page. By caster-to-caster comparison I just meant that if you never picked up a weapon, which character would be more effective. Defense has to be part of evaluating a caster, since a dead caster is the least effective of all.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It definitely seems like if you're spending both of your extra magical secrets shoring up your defenses, and still coming out still worse off than if you had medium armor and a shield, then you're not gaining much from choosing to be a lore bard. And I guess that's what you're saying. I guess it feels like a one level dip to improve defense and get some other things that help you, leaving magical secrets for added flexibility, is a better choice than spending magical secrets on defense. But that delay in spell progression is a big deal. I guess another option is to spend a feat getting medium armor and shields, but unless you can survive to level 12 for that (or, I suppose, you're a variant human), it means living with a worse spell DC for several levels.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. I just meant that if a lot of the time you don't get attacked at all, then pre-casting mirror image as a habit might be a poor choice, and you'd rather have shield (I guess unless you know which type of combat it is ahead of time).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agree there. You definitely want to do something. The question is what's best? The choices seem to be: magical secrets, a dip, a feat, or be a valor bard instead.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, bumping damage gets much better if you get to know before using the die whether your attack would have killed the opponent or not. Is it reasonable to ask that you know that, though, given that the ability for attack rolls explicitly states that you aren't supposed to know whether your attack hits or not? If you get information about kill vs. not kill but don't get information about hit vs. not hit, that seems like stacking the deck in favor of combat inspiration. At my table, any augmentation to damage needs to be applied before the DM says anything about whether the creature dies, let alone whether it's close to dying (and he rolls for enemy HP, so we can't even count on two identical creatures having the same number).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7478354, member: 6966824"] Yeah, we're on the same page. By caster-to-caster comparison I just meant that if you never picked up a weapon, which character would be more effective. Defense has to be part of evaluating a caster, since a dead caster is the least effective of all. It definitely seems like if you're spending both of your extra magical secrets shoring up your defenses, and still coming out still worse off than if you had medium armor and a shield, then you're not gaining much from choosing to be a lore bard. And I guess that's what you're saying. I guess it feels like a one level dip to improve defense and get some other things that help you, leaving magical secrets for added flexibility, is a better choice than spending magical secrets on defense. But that delay in spell progression is a big deal. I guess another option is to spend a feat getting medium armor and shields, but unless you can survive to level 12 for that (or, I suppose, you're a variant human), it means living with a worse spell DC for several levels. Sure. I just meant that if a lot of the time you don't get attacked at all, then pre-casting mirror image as a habit might be a poor choice, and you'd rather have shield (I guess unless you know which type of combat it is ahead of time). Agree there. You definitely want to do something. The question is what's best? The choices seem to be: magical secrets, a dip, a feat, or be a valor bard instead. Oh, bumping damage gets much better if you get to know before using the die whether your attack would have killed the opponent or not. Is it reasonable to ask that you know that, though, given that the ability for attack rolls explicitly states that you aren't supposed to know whether your attack hits or not? If you get information about kill vs. not kill but don't get information about hit vs. not hit, that seems like stacking the deck in favor of combat inspiration. At my table, any augmentation to damage needs to be applied before the DM says anything about whether the creature dies, let alone whether it's close to dying (and he rolls for enemy HP, so we can't even count on two identical creatures having the same number). [/QUOTE]
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