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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7172280" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>All this does is shift the campaign's pacing from 6-8 encounter days (or fewer, if the party is successful in resting more often, you might have a 5-min work week instead of day, for instance). It can be a very useful thing to do, but it only makes the game 'lower magic' in a very desultory way in that magic systematically used during downtime will add up more slowly, it'll have no other meaningful impact on how the game plays out, nor the role of magic-using PCs in it.</p><p></p><p> It ('gritty' rest option) just creates a slower pace in the campaign, the non-casters also have to rest for a long time to get their HD back, for instance. </p><p></p><p> There might be one such sorcerer active in the world at a time, and no comparable power is typically accessible to Conan or whatever allies he may have at the time. That's low-magic compared to FR, by a huge margin, for instance. </p><p></p><p>But it is true that 'low magic' can mean very different things. In the context of D&D, it most often means 'few magic items' and/or 'few NPC casters.' It rarely means 'no PC caster,' or 'PC casters have less access to and/or less powerful magic.' The inevitable consequence of that kind of 'low magic' is that PC casters are significantly more important and powerful and have a greater relative impact on the game, any non-casting PCs don't have as many (if any) magic items to bring them into line with the casters, and enemies are less likely to be able to be prepared for or respond to PC magic. </p><p></p><p>Thus 'nerfing' casters can be necessary, just to keep them at their normal level of effectiveness...</p><p></p><p> I agree it's better to ban a class if the desire is to eliminate it from play, precisely because nerfing something to that is meant to be astoundingly rare in the setting, doesn't make it much less desirable for a PC, in fact, it can make it that much more appealing to a certain type of player.</p><p></p><p> A no-magic game or all-martial party is theoretically possible, it just needs to make up some basic capabilities that the game depends upon to remain playable and which existing non-magical classes lack. In 4e, thanks to there being more martial classes covering the three least dispensable of the four formal Roles, it was pretty nearly seamless - it would have been more so with a 'Martial Controller.' 5e has pulled back from that, a lot, with only a handful of non-magic-wielding sub-classes in the PH, but it could still be restored with enough work. There are a few more sub-classes in SCAG, and some in UA. There's any number of such classes of variable quality on DMsG. It's an obvious and profound lack, and there've been many attempts to address it, just no adequate, official ones. </p><p></p><p>5e has the traditional D&D abhorrence of even the possibility of a party being successful without substantial magical aid, either from casters, other supernatural classes, or items - or all three. Swimming against that current is not easy. </p><p></p><p>Faux-low-magic, where the world is low-magic, but the PCs 'standard,' and thus at a profound advantage in the setting (the approach Primeval Thule took), is much smoother to implement...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7172280, member: 996"] All this does is shift the campaign's pacing from 6-8 encounter days (or fewer, if the party is successful in resting more often, you might have a 5-min work week instead of day, for instance). It can be a very useful thing to do, but it only makes the game 'lower magic' in a very desultory way in that magic systematically used during downtime will add up more slowly, it'll have no other meaningful impact on how the game plays out, nor the role of magic-using PCs in it. It ('gritty' rest option) just creates a slower pace in the campaign, the non-casters also have to rest for a long time to get their HD back, for instance. There might be one such sorcerer active in the world at a time, and no comparable power is typically accessible to Conan or whatever allies he may have at the time. That's low-magic compared to FR, by a huge margin, for instance. But it is true that 'low magic' can mean very different things. In the context of D&D, it most often means 'few magic items' and/or 'few NPC casters.' It rarely means 'no PC caster,' or 'PC casters have less access to and/or less powerful magic.' The inevitable consequence of that kind of 'low magic' is that PC casters are significantly more important and powerful and have a greater relative impact on the game, any non-casting PCs don't have as many (if any) magic items to bring them into line with the casters, and enemies are less likely to be able to be prepared for or respond to PC magic. Thus 'nerfing' casters can be necessary, just to keep them at their normal level of effectiveness... I agree it's better to ban a class if the desire is to eliminate it from play, precisely because nerfing something to that is meant to be astoundingly rare in the setting, doesn't make it much less desirable for a PC, in fact, it can make it that much more appealing to a certain type of player. A no-magic game or all-martial party is theoretically possible, it just needs to make up some basic capabilities that the game depends upon to remain playable and which existing non-magical classes lack. In 4e, thanks to there being more martial classes covering the three least dispensable of the four formal Roles, it was pretty nearly seamless - it would have been more so with a 'Martial Controller.' 5e has pulled back from that, a lot, with only a handful of non-magic-wielding sub-classes in the PH, but it could still be restored with enough work. There are a few more sub-classes in SCAG, and some in UA. There's any number of such classes of variable quality on DMsG. It's an obvious and profound lack, and there've been many attempts to address it, just no adequate, official ones. 5e has the traditional D&D abhorrence of even the possibility of a party being successful without substantial magical aid, either from casters, other supernatural classes, or items - or all three. Swimming against that current is not easy. Faux-low-magic, where the world is low-magic, but the PCs 'standard,' and thus at a profound advantage in the setting (the approach Primeval Thule took), is much smoother to implement... [/QUOTE]
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