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General Tabletop Discussion
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Magic Item Construction - Spell effect vs. Item Description
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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 884519" data-attributes="member: 3051"><p>I'll get to this one before dcollins does:</p><p></p><p>All new items are subject to DM approval, and the costs listed in the DMG are simply guidelines for him to come up with a ballpark price. They're not there for the player to come up with new and utterly broken items. If an item seems entirely too good for the price, then the price needs to be raised.</p><p></p><p>------------------</p><p></p><p>In most cases the guidelines work fine, but they really fall apart when you start talking about continuous or unlimited-use items. That's because balance factors like duration, targettability, etc., suddenly become meaningless. For these items, you need to price things in terms of their effects, not the spells used to create them.</p><p></p><p>(Same logic: I could have continuous GMW on a nonmagical sword, but I'd price it as a standard Enhancement bonus, not as a low-level spell effect)</p><p></p><p>So, just because you can think up an item with continuous <em>mage armor</em> doesn't mean you can have it, or that it'll cost what the DMG equations give you. If you're the DM, then you need to price that continuous item by its effect (+4 armor bonus that works as a force effect) and not by the spell which caused it.</p><p></p><p>If you want a continuous or Free Action-activated <em>true strike</em> item, you should price it as if it were an item that adds +20 to attack rolls. In other words, horrendously expensive, Epic-level item.</p><p></p><p>If you want an item that casts <em>cure minor wounds</em> at will, you should price it as if it gave Fast Healing 1 instead of a cantrip. See also: Ring of Regeneration.</p><p></p><p>Now that we've got the formalities out of the way, I'm assuming you're a DM trying to figure out whether to allow things in your campaign. If you're a player, the generic answer is "no, you can't have it unless your DM says it's okay". To your questions:</p><p></p><p>1> B. A is only slightly less powerful (needing to refresh the ability once per hour), so clearly there's something wrong with the pricing.</p><p></p><p>2> "Use-activated" (no action needed): no way.</p><p>"Command-word" (so it takes an action): Sure, although the price would be higher than that. I'd personally require that the <em>true strike</em> have the same caster level as the rest of the bow.</p><p>There's an item that already does this in one of the splatbooks. Don't remember which one, though.</p><p></p><p>3> Price by the effect, not the spell, for permanent effects.</p><p></p><p>4> Well, as a general rule I'd say the caster level should be high enough that the effect could have lasted most of the day in its own right. <em>mage armor</em> lasts 1hr/level, so I could get a caster level 5 item that casts the spell 5 times per day for 10k. Now you're in the right neighborhood.</p><p>For spells with shorter duration, what's the most number of times per day you intended to use the effect? Take <em>shield</em> for example; you only will get into a half-dozen fights at most in the course of a day, and if the average fight lasts a couple minutes, that means you could already make an item with caster level 3 and 6 uses per day; all you're doing is removing the activation action, so raise the price a bit further.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 884519, member: 3051"] I'll get to this one before dcollins does: All new items are subject to DM approval, and the costs listed in the DMG are simply guidelines for him to come up with a ballpark price. They're not there for the player to come up with new and utterly broken items. If an item seems entirely too good for the price, then the price needs to be raised. ------------------ In most cases the guidelines work fine, but they really fall apart when you start talking about continuous or unlimited-use items. That's because balance factors like duration, targettability, etc., suddenly become meaningless. For these items, you need to price things in terms of their effects, not the spells used to create them. (Same logic: I could have continuous GMW on a nonmagical sword, but I'd price it as a standard Enhancement bonus, not as a low-level spell effect) So, just because you can think up an item with continuous [i]mage armor[/i] doesn't mean you can have it, or that it'll cost what the DMG equations give you. If you're the DM, then you need to price that continuous item by its effect (+4 armor bonus that works as a force effect) and not by the spell which caused it. If you want a continuous or Free Action-activated [i]true strike[/i] item, you should price it as if it were an item that adds +20 to attack rolls. In other words, horrendously expensive, Epic-level item. If you want an item that casts [i]cure minor wounds[/i] at will, you should price it as if it gave Fast Healing 1 instead of a cantrip. See also: Ring of Regeneration. Now that we've got the formalities out of the way, I'm assuming you're a DM trying to figure out whether to allow things in your campaign. If you're a player, the generic answer is "no, you can't have it unless your DM says it's okay". To your questions: 1> B. A is only slightly less powerful (needing to refresh the ability once per hour), so clearly there's something wrong with the pricing. 2> "Use-activated" (no action needed): no way. "Command-word" (so it takes an action): Sure, although the price would be higher than that. I'd personally require that the [i]true strike[/i] have the same caster level as the rest of the bow. There's an item that already does this in one of the splatbooks. Don't remember which one, though. 3> Price by the effect, not the spell, for permanent effects. 4> Well, as a general rule I'd say the caster level should be high enough that the effect could have lasted most of the day in its own right. [i]mage armor[/i] lasts 1hr/level, so I could get a caster level 5 item that casts the spell 5 times per day for 10k. Now you're in the right neighborhood. For spells with shorter duration, what's the most number of times per day you intended to use the effect? Take [i]shield[/i] for example; you only will get into a half-dozen fights at most in the course of a day, and if the average fight lasts a couple minutes, that means you could already make an item with caster level 3 and 6 uses per day; all you're doing is removing the activation action, so raise the price a bit further. [/QUOTE]
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