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Magic Missile while blinded
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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5339767" data-attributes="member: 71571"><p>The fact it counts as a ranged basic attack is irrelevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nothing relevant. Magic Missile does not have a range of 'sight.'</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nothing relevant. Magic Missile does not have a range of 'sight.'</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Something relevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, this is irrelevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your argument is based on the fact that ranged powers with a range of 'sight' require line of sight. </p><p></p><p>Magic Missile is not one of those powers. (Neither is ranged basic attack.)</p><p></p><p>Magic Missile's range is 20. '20' and 'Sight' are not the same thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except you did not Demonstrandum anything to Quod Est.</p><p></p><p>It is a ranged power. The point of origin is yourself. So you need a single line of effect to the target. However, it does not have an attack roll, therefore concealment does nothing. All line of sight does for attacks is determine concealment.</p><p></p><p>You can use Magic Missile if you are blind just as you can use a Healing Word while you are blind. Magic Missile is a power with no attack roll that has an Effect line. (This is not technically the same thing as 'automatically hitting', tho you can grok it that way if you like) Healing Word is a power with no attack roll that has an Effect line. Unless that effect is explicitly negated by lack of line of sight (teleportation springs to mind) then there's no reason to believe Magic Missile behaves any different.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, one cannot hold the idea that Magic Missile cannot be used on a target while blinded, but that Ray of Frost can (with a -5 penalty.) It's already established that yes, you can make ranged attacks while blinded. Magic Missile benefits from that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I humbly disagree because bacon is not a vegetable.</p><p></p><p>Your points are irrelevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope.</p><p></p><p>1) Unless the enemy has made a stealth check against you, you are aware of its location. The rules are explicit about this.</p><p>2) Ranged attack specificly states that you can use it against an enemy you cannot see.</p><p>3) Nothing in Standard Action acts as an exception to either rule.</p><p>4) Nothing in Ranged Basic Attack acts as an exception to either rule.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Incorrect. Line of Effect is not dependant on Line of Sight, and Line of Sight is not dependant on Line of Effect. You're confusing 'making a ranged attack' with 'teleportation' which DOES behave as you state.</p><p></p><p>The only sort of ranged attack where this applies is with Gaze attacks and attacks with "Ranged sight"-range, which present an explicit exception to the line of sight rules </p><p></p><p>Magic Missile does not have that keyword, or that range.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 5339767, member: 71571"] The fact it counts as a ranged basic attack is irrelevant. Nothing relevant. Magic Missile does not have a range of 'sight.' Nothing relevant. Magic Missile does not have a range of 'sight.' Something relevant. Again, this is irrelevant. Your argument is based on the fact that ranged powers with a range of 'sight' require line of sight. Magic Missile is not one of those powers. (Neither is ranged basic attack.) Magic Missile's range is 20. '20' and 'Sight' are not the same thing. Except you did not Demonstrandum anything to Quod Est. It is a ranged power. The point of origin is yourself. So you need a single line of effect to the target. However, it does not have an attack roll, therefore concealment does nothing. All line of sight does for attacks is determine concealment. You can use Magic Missile if you are blind just as you can use a Healing Word while you are blind. Magic Missile is a power with no attack roll that has an Effect line. (This is not technically the same thing as 'automatically hitting', tho you can grok it that way if you like) Healing Word is a power with no attack roll that has an Effect line. Unless that effect is explicitly negated by lack of line of sight (teleportation springs to mind) then there's no reason to believe Magic Missile behaves any different. Moreover, one cannot hold the idea that Magic Missile cannot be used on a target while blinded, but that Ray of Frost can (with a -5 penalty.) It's already established that yes, you can make ranged attacks while blinded. Magic Missile benefits from that. I humbly disagree because bacon is not a vegetable. Your points are irrelevant. Nope. 1) Unless the enemy has made a stealth check against you, you are aware of its location. The rules are explicit about this. 2) Ranged attack specificly states that you can use it against an enemy you cannot see. 3) Nothing in Standard Action acts as an exception to either rule. 4) Nothing in Ranged Basic Attack acts as an exception to either rule. Incorrect. Line of Effect is not dependant on Line of Sight, and Line of Sight is not dependant on Line of Effect. You're confusing 'making a ranged attack' with 'teleportation' which DOES behave as you state. The only sort of ranged attack where this applies is with Gaze attacks and attacks with "Ranged sight"-range, which present an explicit exception to the line of sight rules Magic Missile does not have that keyword, or that range. [/QUOTE]
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