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Make SPELLS Balanced
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8823484" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>If the DM plays on easy mode they are similar, if the DM plays smart monsters smart Fear is a lot better. </p><p></p><p>The problem with hypnotic pattern is one uneffected enemy can end the effect on someone with an action and that enemy does not lose a turn getting out of the effect. This means as long as one enemy saves it should last no longer than 2 turns. For example you target 10 guys with HP. 9 of them fail the save and are charmed. The one that is not charmed uses his action to free one that is, that one uses his action to free another one, that one uses his action to free another one...... in one round all of them are free of it. That is how it works RAW, if the DM does not play the monsters that way, claims they would not know or try that, or houserules it so enemies can't act on the round they are shaken out then they are comparable. I will note though that damaging enemies also ends the effect so even in this case I would still give the edge to fear.</p><p></p><p>Fear by contrast is impossible to get out of as long as the caster is in sight. If you cast Fear in a room that is a dead end, the fight is over for any that fail the save (unless the caster loses concentration). They can't leave the room because of frightened, they can't take any actions and they don't get to save again. Outside in an open area any that fail have to dash away for an entire minute since they can't break line of sight, all you have to do is chase them and keep wailing them with AOOs (or ranged attacks). Best case for the monsters is it is in an area with a lot of vegetation or underground where they can run around a corner and out of sight and save again. In those cases it is at least 2 lost turns as they take one turn dashing away. If they manage to make the first save at the end of that turn, then they need to dash the next turn to get back to the same place they were when the spell was cast.</p><p></p><p>Fear is by far the most effective spell available at 3rd level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah but they are wrong it isn't very powerful in play, certainly not compared to control spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I find fireball more situational because of the large area. To cast fireball effectively against melee goons a wizard usually needs to win inititative outright, beating both the goons and his own melee allies. I think your quote kind of gets to the point. I would say in a multi-target combat, Lighting bolt can almost always target two enemies, but Lightning bolt CAN be used against a single target and it CAN be used in almost any combat at any point in that combat. </p><p></p><p>Fireball is a more powerful opener, if the wizard gets a very high initiative, and if there are a lot of enemies but that in itself is situational.</p><p></p><p>Now if you are playing an evocation wizard that can sculpt spells that is a different story.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8823484, member: 7030563"] If the DM plays on easy mode they are similar, if the DM plays smart monsters smart Fear is a lot better. The problem with hypnotic pattern is one uneffected enemy can end the effect on someone with an action and that enemy does not lose a turn getting out of the effect. This means as long as one enemy saves it should last no longer than 2 turns. For example you target 10 guys with HP. 9 of them fail the save and are charmed. The one that is not charmed uses his action to free one that is, that one uses his action to free another one, that one uses his action to free another one...... in one round all of them are free of it. That is how it works RAW, if the DM does not play the monsters that way, claims they would not know or try that, or houserules it so enemies can't act on the round they are shaken out then they are comparable. I will note though that damaging enemies also ends the effect so even in this case I would still give the edge to fear. Fear by contrast is impossible to get out of as long as the caster is in sight. If you cast Fear in a room that is a dead end, the fight is over for any that fail the save (unless the caster loses concentration). They can't leave the room because of frightened, they can't take any actions and they don't get to save again. Outside in an open area any that fail have to dash away for an entire minute since they can't break line of sight, all you have to do is chase them and keep wailing them with AOOs (or ranged attacks). Best case for the monsters is it is in an area with a lot of vegetation or underground where they can run around a corner and out of sight and save again. In those cases it is at least 2 lost turns as they take one turn dashing away. If they manage to make the first save at the end of that turn, then they need to dash the next turn to get back to the same place they were when the spell was cast. Fear is by far the most effective spell available at 3rd level. Yeah but they are wrong it isn't very powerful in play, certainly not compared to control spells. I find fireball more situational because of the large area. To cast fireball effectively against melee goons a wizard usually needs to win inititative outright, beating both the goons and his own melee allies. I think your quote kind of gets to the point. I would say in a multi-target combat, Lighting bolt can almost always target two enemies, but Lightning bolt CAN be used against a single target and it CAN be used in almost any combat at any point in that combat. Fireball is a more powerful opener, if the wizard gets a very high initiative, and if there are a lot of enemies but that in itself is situational. Now if you are playing an evocation wizard that can sculpt spells that is a different story. [/QUOTE]
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