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Making money matter (forked from Abstracting Wealth)
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5684892" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Sure, but again you can only make common items. The most you can do is make an item ONE plus above what you can make without any of these optimizations. This simply will not break the game. It also requires a LOT of gold. Admittedly if you give away 10x the recommended gp consistently level after level and have someone who'll optimize their artificer for this it makes SOME difference, but it is still pretty limited, and again it won't even come close to breaking the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, but it still cannot be performed on items above your level. You can 'catch up' older items, which is helpful but still won't even come close to breaking anything. As for making items that aren't common, this is an argument, but it is also clearly not the way the GENERAL item construction rules are now written, where it is clearly stated PCs can only enchant common items. In theory the Enchant Item ritual can be USED to make other items, but equally clearly being able to make them at all by any means is a house rule and Enchant Item doesn't make an exception to that rule. </p><p></p><p>Frankly if you have a player that is going to try to rules lawyer that the best they can do is make a dubious case and also quite clearly they have to go out of their way and actively rules lawyer. Obviously if someone is that desirous not to play in your campaign with different treasure distribution then they probably shouldn't play in your campaign! If they DO want to play there, then they won't mind playing by the rules and it isn't an issue. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, yeah, you don't have to worry about it if you don't give out as much gold as normal, but then why would there be any issue at all? PCs never NEEDED to make any items at all to start with. They get something like 8x more treasure value worth of placed items by RAW than they do gold anyway. Just give out much less GP and leave it at that, you can leave Enchant Item and Magi-Mart in the game and they're irrelevant anyway, nobody will ever be able to set foot in there. They could sell loads of spare items and MAYBE buy/make a couple other ones, but big deal from a balance standpoint.</p><p></p><p>Really, the whole wealth system is highly robust and has many firewalls at this point. The only way to break things really would be to give out loads of treasure, let anyone make anything, etc. </p><p></p><p>So your idea is fine, it will work great except for ritual and consumable cost, but you can obviously just slide those a decimal place or whatever works. </p><p></p><p>Just speaking for myself I know it does feel more realistic to have silver be useful and interesting, but OTOH after running like 10 full D&D campaigns I've long since concluded that making change and tracking what is in people's pockets is low fun for high investment. It is interesting for a couple sessions and then it quickly pales, like tracking arrows and charges on wands did. Now and then it is fun to have the PCs run into some kind of monetary bind as a plot hook. IMHO as a routine everyday part of the campaign it just gets tiresome. My opinion of course being of no relevance to you <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5684892, member: 82106"] Sure, but again you can only make common items. The most you can do is make an item ONE plus above what you can make without any of these optimizations. This simply will not break the game. It also requires a LOT of gold. Admittedly if you give away 10x the recommended gp consistently level after level and have someone who'll optimize their artificer for this it makes SOME difference, but it is still pretty limited, and again it won't even come close to breaking the game. Yes, but it still cannot be performed on items above your level. You can 'catch up' older items, which is helpful but still won't even come close to breaking anything. As for making items that aren't common, this is an argument, but it is also clearly not the way the GENERAL item construction rules are now written, where it is clearly stated PCs can only enchant common items. In theory the Enchant Item ritual can be USED to make other items, but equally clearly being able to make them at all by any means is a house rule and Enchant Item doesn't make an exception to that rule. Frankly if you have a player that is going to try to rules lawyer that the best they can do is make a dubious case and also quite clearly they have to go out of their way and actively rules lawyer. Obviously if someone is that desirous not to play in your campaign with different treasure distribution then they probably shouldn't play in your campaign! If they DO want to play there, then they won't mind playing by the rules and it isn't an issue. Oh, yeah, you don't have to worry about it if you don't give out as much gold as normal, but then why would there be any issue at all? PCs never NEEDED to make any items at all to start with. They get something like 8x more treasure value worth of placed items by RAW than they do gold anyway. Just give out much less GP and leave it at that, you can leave Enchant Item and Magi-Mart in the game and they're irrelevant anyway, nobody will ever be able to set foot in there. They could sell loads of spare items and MAYBE buy/make a couple other ones, but big deal from a balance standpoint. Really, the whole wealth system is highly robust and has many firewalls at this point. The only way to break things really would be to give out loads of treasure, let anyone make anything, etc. So your idea is fine, it will work great except for ritual and consumable cost, but you can obviously just slide those a decimal place or whatever works. Just speaking for myself I know it does feel more realistic to have silver be useful and interesting, but OTOH after running like 10 full D&D campaigns I've long since concluded that making change and tracking what is in people's pockets is low fun for high investment. It is interesting for a couple sessions and then it quickly pales, like tracking arrows and charges on wands did. Now and then it is fun to have the PCs run into some kind of monetary bind as a plot hook. IMHO as a routine everyday part of the campaign it just gets tiresome. My opinion of course being of no relevance to you ;) [/QUOTE]
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